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329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments-2018 [2018/11/01 04:25] – [Things the Movie got right] jhagn329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments-2018 [2018/11/02 12:56] (current) – [The movie as a primary source of its time] wroszell
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 ====== Errors in fact ====== ====== Errors in fact ======
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 +There can only be one 'Doc Holliday', and that is Val Kilmer. --Andrew Mullins
  
 At the beginning of the film, Wyatt Earp and two of the brothers go into Tombstone to check it out, only to return to their camp to find their youngest brother, James, murdered, and the cattle stolen. When Wyatt buries him, **The tombstone says he was born in 1864, and died in 1882, with Wyatt saying he was only 18 years old. This is historically inaccurate for a number of reasons. The first reason being that James Earp was not the youngest brother of the Earps; he was the oldest. The second reason is that James was born in 1841, and he died in 1926.** The third reason is that when he did die, it wasn't because he was murdered; he died of natural causes in California. https://www.legendsofamerica.com/james-earp/ --Robert Dallas At the beginning of the film, Wyatt Earp and two of the brothers go into Tombstone to check it out, only to return to their camp to find their youngest brother, James, murdered, and the cattle stolen. When Wyatt buries him, **The tombstone says he was born in 1864, and died in 1882, with Wyatt saying he was only 18 years old. This is historically inaccurate for a number of reasons. The first reason being that James Earp was not the youngest brother of the Earps; he was the oldest. The second reason is that James was born in 1841, and he died in 1926.** The third reason is that when he did die, it wasn't because he was murdered; he died of natural causes in California. https://www.legendsofamerica.com/james-earp/ --Robert Dallas
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 Doc Holliday was well know to Wyatt Earp well before Wyatt came to Tombstone. Wyatt also did a number of jobs before even becoming a deputy marshal. Doc also did not die in the gunfight but several years later. These are just a few of the basic factual errors that were found all throughout the film. --Jack Hagn Doc Holliday was well know to Wyatt Earp well before Wyatt came to Tombstone. Wyatt also did a number of jobs before even becoming a deputy marshal. Doc also did not die in the gunfight but several years later. These are just a few of the basic factual errors that were found all throughout the film. --Jack Hagn
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 +One of the biggest issues with the movie is the way it depicted the gunfight at the OK Corral as the big climax of the war between the Cowboys and the Earps. **In actuality, the gunfight was only the beginning, and implying that Wyatt Earp rode off into the sunset as soon as the fight was over is ridiculous. Matewan dealt with a similar problem eloquently by using its closing narration to explain how the war was just beginning,** but My Darling Clementine skirted the issue entirely, in contrast to more accurate movies about the shootout like Tombstone, which also happens to be the greatest mustache movie of all time. (Justin Curtis)
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 +A pretty basic and strange one for them to get wrong is the whole timing of the movie. The Earps first even hear about Tombstone a year after the actual gunfight at the OK Corral occurred. - Sam Hartz
 ====== Things the Movie got right ====== ====== Things the Movie got right ======
 There is a clear distinction between gender roles for women in the West and in the East. Chihuahua is not proper in the way she acts and dresses. She also speaks more freely. Clementine, on the other hand is very proper. **Women in the West could push boundaries because of the "lawless" environment.** -Maddie Shiflett  There is a clear distinction between gender roles for women in the West and in the East. Chihuahua is not proper in the way she acts and dresses. She also speaks more freely. Clementine, on the other hand is very proper. **Women in the West could push boundaries because of the "lawless" environment.** -Maddie Shiflett 
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 In the scene where Wyatt is in the bar playing eight-handed poker, the band is playing a song called **"Buffalo Gals."** Since this song was first published in 1844 and was popularized by traveling minstrel shows, it's highly probable that such a song would be played in bars in the post-Civil War American West. Source: http://www.balladofamerica.com/music/indexes/songs/buffalogal/index.htm ~Will Everett In the scene where Wyatt is in the bar playing eight-handed poker, the band is playing a song called **"Buffalo Gals."** Since this song was first published in 1844 and was popularized by traveling minstrel shows, it's highly probable that such a song would be played in bars in the post-Civil War American West. Source: http://www.balladofamerica.com/music/indexes/songs/buffalogal/index.htm ~Will Everett
  
-The movie did portray the feud between the Clantons and the Earps which was factual. The film also took a lot of liberties with the story of the O.K. Corral shootout. They did get some of the surroundings correct as the background and the clothes. --Jack Hagn+The movie did portray the feud between the Clantons and the Earps which was factual. The film also took a lot of liberties with the story of the O.K. Corral shootout. They did get some of the surroundings correct as the background and the clothes. The movie also got right the usage of 'Buffalo' as Wyatt did pistol whip one of the Clantons in the saloon. --Jack Hagn
 ====== Questions about interpretation ====== ====== Questions about interpretation ======
 This movie contains all of the classic elements of a good Western. The main message is that good triumphs over evil. **There is a righteous hero and an evil villain** However, one thing that John Ford does differently is that he gives his characters a much more human and emotional side. Even though Old Man Clanton is ruthless and bad, at the end his humanity is revealed when he mourns for his sons. The characters in this film are stock characters that are always found in Westerns. However, they are much more developed than characters I have seen in other classic Westerns. -Maddie Shiflett  This movie contains all of the classic elements of a good Western. The main message is that good triumphs over evil. **There is a righteous hero and an evil villain** However, one thing that John Ford does differently is that he gives his characters a much more human and emotional side. Even though Old Man Clanton is ruthless and bad, at the end his humanity is revealed when he mourns for his sons. The characters in this film are stock characters that are always found in Westerns. However, they are much more developed than characters I have seen in other classic Westerns. -Maddie Shiflett 
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 The death of Doc Holliday in the film--which in actuality, as others have already pointed out, did not occur at OK Corral, but of consumption in 1887--can be seen as the culmination of his long-standing disregard for his own life. Not until Chihuahua dies does Holliday approach Wyatt and offer to help him fight the Clantons at the OK Corral--not until his last hope for self-redemption had been denied. What does the fulfillment of this desire to seek out death mean about how mental illness was perceived at the time in which this movie was set, or the time in which it was made? ~Will Everett The death of Doc Holliday in the film--which in actuality, as others have already pointed out, did not occur at OK Corral, but of consumption in 1887--can be seen as the culmination of his long-standing disregard for his own life. Not until Chihuahua dies does Holliday approach Wyatt and offer to help him fight the Clantons at the OK Corral--not until his last hope for self-redemption had been denied. What does the fulfillment of this desire to seek out death mean about how mental illness was perceived at the time in which this movie was set, or the time in which it was made? ~Will Everett
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 +This movie did a great a job at painting a very white version of the west . It only mentioned one minority group that followed the stereotype of drunk Indians in saloons. It made no mention of the diverse populations that were migrating out west. Where are the non-white people at? –William Roszell
 ====== The movie as a primary source of its time ====== ====== The movie as a primary source of its time ======
 What this movie says about the 1940's is that people wanted to be entertained and wanted to celebrate classic American heroes. Westerns were very popular at this time because, as a genre, they generally take pride in America's past and focus on what we consider to be a very exciting time and place. The Wild West is heavily romanticized on screen. -Maddie Shiflett  What this movie says about the 1940's is that people wanted to be entertained and wanted to celebrate classic American heroes. Westerns were very popular at this time because, as a genre, they generally take pride in America's past and focus on what we consider to be a very exciting time and place. The Wild West is heavily romanticized on screen. -Maddie Shiflett 
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 One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, this 1946 film does not pass this test. Yes, there are two named women. Yes, they do have a conversation. But their conversation lies in the subject that Chihuahua wanted Clementine to leave because Clementine threatened Chihuahua’s future with Doc Holliday. In this film, women are portrayed as love interests for the main heroes and only that. – Carolyn Stough One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, this 1946 film does not pass this test. Yes, there are two named women. Yes, they do have a conversation. But their conversation lies in the subject that Chihuahua wanted Clementine to leave because Clementine threatened Chihuahua’s future with Doc Holliday. In this film, women are portrayed as love interests for the main heroes and only that. – Carolyn Stough
  
 +This movie didn't seem like it was trying to present a complex image of it's characters in the way that more modern Western movies would try to do, like the Wyatt Earp film from 1994. It reflected the time period it was made in that I think people just really wanted to see a more black and white depiction of heroes and villains in 1946. They were going to the movies to be entertained. - Sam Hartz
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 +My Darling Clementine is a classic western that attempts to depict the definition of what a manliness in 1940’s .–William Roszell
 ====== Comparing the reading to the movie ====== ====== Comparing the reading to the movie ======
  
-Many women wrote of their hardships moving west. Chihuahua sings of "10,000" gone astray who end up "broke." This parallels Mary Abell's account, who "expected corn and hay to sell to have paid all our debts here," yet got "no pay with the coarsest living." Many moved west with the hope to make money, yet they ended up broke when it turned out that the soil and climate was not conducive to harvesting large crop yields and there wasn't enough wood to make adequate fences. --Jessica Lynch +Many women wrote of their hardships moving west. Chihuahua sings of "10,000" gone astray who end up "broke." This parallels Mary Abell's account, who "expected corn and hay to sell to have paid all our debts here," yet got "no pay with the coarsest living." **Many moved west with the hope to make money, yet they ended up broke when it turned out that the soil and climate was not conducive to harvesting large crop yields and there wasn't enough wood to make adequate fences.** --Jessica Lynch 
  
 It seems that they used Debs as a reference for Kenehan, because a lot of the things in Debs's "Outlook for Socialism in the United States" reflect what Kenehan was saying in the film. Also, it was interesting to read Taylor's piece-rate system proposal, because it is almost exactly what Danny describes in his sermon about paying men for their labor. In his sermon, he discusses a passage in the Bible which focuses on men doing more labor than others but all being paid the same. I would be curious to know if Danny and the other union men would like the piece-rate system more. --Erin Shaw It seems that they used Debs as a reference for Kenehan, because a lot of the things in Debs's "Outlook for Socialism in the United States" reflect what Kenehan was saying in the film. Also, it was interesting to read Taylor's piece-rate system proposal, because it is almost exactly what Danny describes in his sermon about paying men for their labor. In his sermon, he discusses a passage in the Bible which focuses on men doing more labor than others but all being paid the same. I would be curious to know if Danny and the other union men would like the piece-rate system more. --Erin Shaw
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 The movie is simply one that says that it is historically accurate—is not—but is an awesome western film that resonates with viewers. Rather than serving as a secondary source of the gunfight at the OK corral it mimics Gone with the Wind in that it shows a romanticized version of its setting—in Clementine’s case, the West. -Lake Wiley The movie is simply one that says that it is historically accurate—is not—but is an awesome western film that resonates with viewers. Rather than serving as a secondary source of the gunfight at the OK corral it mimics Gone with the Wind in that it shows a romanticized version of its setting—in Clementine’s case, the West. -Lake Wiley
  
-One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, this 1946 film does not pass this test. Yes, there are two named women. Yes, they do have a conversation. But their conversation lies in the subject that Chihuahua wanted Clementine to leave because Clementine threatened Chihuahua’s future with Doc Holliday. In this film, women are portrayed as love interests for the main heroes and only that. – Carolyn Stough+One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, this 1946 film does not pass this test. **Yes, there are two named women. Yes, they do have a conversation. But their conversation lies in the subject that Chihuahua wanted Clementine to leave because Clementine threatened Chihuahua’s future with Doc Holliday. In this film, women are portrayed as love interests for the main heroes and only that.** – Carolyn Stough
329/question/329--week_9_questions_comments-2018.1541046311.txt.gz · Last modified: 2018/11/01 04:25 by jhagn