329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments-2018
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| 329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments-2018 [2018/11/01 04:02] – [Questions about interpretation] 76.78.225.74 | 329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments-2018 [2018/11/02 12:56] (current) – [The movie as a primary source of its time] wroszell | ||
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| ====== Errors in fact ====== | ====== Errors in fact ====== | ||
| - | At the beginning of the film, Wyatt Earp and two of the brothers go into Tombstone to check it out, only to return to their camp to find their youngest brother, James, murdered, and the cattle stolen. When Wyatt buries him, The tombstone says he was born in 1864, and died in 1882, with Wyatt saying he was only 18 years old. This is historically inaccurate for a number of reasons. The first reason being that James Earp was not the youngest brother of the Earps; he was the oldest. The second reason is that James was born in 1841, and he died in 1926. The third reason is that when he did die, it wasn't because he was murdered; he died of natural causes in California. https:// | + | There can only be one 'Doc Holliday', |
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| + | At the beginning of the film, Wyatt Earp and two of the brothers go into Tombstone to check it out, only to return to their camp to find their youngest brother, James, murdered, and the cattle stolen. When Wyatt buries him, **The tombstone says he was born in 1864, and died in 1882, with Wyatt saying he was only 18 years old. This is historically inaccurate for a number of reasons. The first reason being that James Earp was not the youngest brother of the Earps; he was the oldest. The second reason is that James was born in 1841, and he died in 1926.** The third reason is that when he did die, it wasn't because he was murdered; he died of natural causes in California. https:// | ||
| James Earp, who’s murdered at the beginning of the movie while still in his teens, actually lived to be 84. --Lindsey Sowers | James Earp, who’s murdered at the beginning of the movie while still in his teens, actually lived to be 84. --Lindsey Sowers | ||
| - | In the film, it shows Doc Holliday dying of gunshot would at the battle at O.K. Corral when he actually died of Tuberculosis in 1887. – Courtlyn P. | + | **In the film, it shows Doc Holliday dying of gunshot would at the battle at O.K. Corral when he actually died of Tuberculosis in 1887**. – Courtlyn P. |
| The battle at the O.K. Corral was not a noble cowboy shootout, but instead was a gunfight in an abandoned lot near the O.K. Corral with only some of the Clantons and Earps present. The Clantons are also portrayed as lawless ranchers in opposition to the lawful Wyatt Earp, but in reality Earp was a more unsavory character who jumped from town to town and gambled often. Chihuahua and Clementine are also not real, but are likely based on women like Josephine Marcus, prostitute turned Earp's girlfriend. It is interesting that Earp has almost nothing to do with the women in this movie, since he was very close to Marcus in real life. In regard to " | The battle at the O.K. Corral was not a noble cowboy shootout, but instead was a gunfight in an abandoned lot near the O.K. Corral with only some of the Clantons and Earps present. The Clantons are also portrayed as lawless ranchers in opposition to the lawful Wyatt Earp, but in reality Earp was a more unsavory character who jumped from town to town and gambled often. Chihuahua and Clementine are also not real, but are likely based on women like Josephine Marcus, prostitute turned Earp's girlfriend. It is interesting that Earp has almost nothing to do with the women in this movie, since he was very close to Marcus in real life. In regard to " | ||
| - | Old Man Clanton wasn't at the OK Corral, he had been killed a few months before. Also, the film takes place in 1882 when the shootout actually took place in 1881, and there was no reason to change the year. --Jessie Fitzgerald | + | **Old Man Clanton wasn't at the OK Corral,** he had been killed a few months before. Also, the film takes place in 1882 when the shootout actually took place in 1881, and there was no reason to change the year. --Jessie Fitzgerald |
| https:// | https:// | ||
| In the opening scene, Wyatt Earp and his brothers are seen driving cattle. The Earp family was known to be lawmen with mostly all the family having involvement in law enforcement, | In the opening scene, Wyatt Earp and his brothers are seen driving cattle. The Earp family was known to be lawmen with mostly all the family having involvement in law enforcement, | ||
| - | The actual gunfight at O.K. Corral lasted about 30 seconds, and the only ones who died were Frank & Tom McLaury and Billy Clanton. --Maryanna Stribling | + | **The actual gunfight at O.K. Corral lasted about 30 seconds, and the only ones who died were Frank & Tom McLaury and Billy Clanton.** --Maryanna Stribling |
| - | The movie takes the names of historical figures and places in order to create a fictional story around them. The shooting is one example of their misleading history in film- the shooting lasted less then a minute, and the Erap's were the first to fire. Making it seem as though they were an honorable banned of brothers looking for justice and laying down the law with harsh but effective tactics is not characteristic of the time period the movie is meant to take place in, but the time in which this fictional film was made and the industry which capitalizes on this era of history but adding " | + | **The movie takes the names of historical figures and places in order to create a fictional story around them.** The shooting is one example of their misleading history in film- the shooting lasted less then a minute, and the Erap's were the first to fire. Making it seem as though they were an honorable banned of brothers looking for justice and laying down the law with harsh but effective tactics is not characteristic of the time period the movie is meant to take place in, but the time in which this fictional film was made and the industry which capitalizes on this era of history but adding " |
| This movie got a lot of the general characters and their sides of the conflict correct. They may not have had all of the correct details, but the names, motivations, | This movie got a lot of the general characters and their sides of the conflict correct. They may not have had all of the correct details, but the names, motivations, | ||
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| + | Doc Holliday was well know to Wyatt Earp well before Wyatt came to Tombstone. Wyatt also did a number of jobs before even becoming a deputy marshal. Doc also did not die in the gunfight but several years later. These are just a few of the basic factual errors that were found all throughout the film. --Jack Hagn | ||
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| + | One of the biggest issues with the movie is the way it depicted the gunfight at the OK Corral as the big climax of the war between the Cowboys and the Earps. **In actuality, the gunfight was only the beginning, and implying that Wyatt Earp rode off into the sunset as soon as the fight was over is ridiculous. Matewan dealt with a similar problem eloquently by using its closing narration to explain how the war was just beginning, | ||
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| + | A pretty basic and strange one for them to get wrong is the whole timing of the movie. The Earps first even hear about Tombstone a year after the actual gunfight at the OK Corral occurred. - Sam Hartz | ||
| ====== Things the Movie got right ====== | ====== Things the Movie got right ====== | ||
| - | There is a clear distinction between gender roles for women in the West and in the East. Chihuahua is not proper in the way she acts and dresses. She also speaks more freely. Clementine, on the other hand is very proper. Women in the West could push boundaries because of the " | + | There is a clear distinction between gender roles for women in the West and in the East. Chihuahua is not proper in the way she acts and dresses. She also speaks more freely. Clementine, on the other hand is very proper. |
| Men came first in the migration to establish a way of life for their families to settle into. --Lindsey Sowers | Men came first in the migration to establish a way of life for their families to settle into. --Lindsey Sowers | ||
| - | In class we talked about how men like Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday were " | + | **In class we talked about how men like Wyatt Earp and Doc Holliday were " |
| - | In the film, the Clantons are said to be ones who run the cattle and as cattle ranchers. This is accurate because “Old Man” Clanton and his sons were cattle ranchers. - Courtlyn P. | + | In the film, the Clantons are said to be ones who run the cattle and as cattle ranchers. |
| In regard to "My Darling Clementine", | In regard to "My Darling Clementine", | ||
| - | We see Chihuahua singing in a local saloon. This was very typical of women in the west during this time period. As we discussed in class, men were the first to migrate west - mainly to work and establish themselves before bringing their families along. When they would go back east to get their families, women were often reluctant due to the nature of working in saloons and brothels that it entailed. --Maryanna Stribling | + | **We see Chihuahua singing in a local saloon. This was very typical of women in the west during this time period.** As we discussed in class, men were the first to migrate west - mainly to work and establish themselves before bringing their families along. When they would go back east to get their families, women were often reluctant due to the nature of working in saloons and brothels that it entailed. --Maryanna Stribling |
| - | In the scene where Wyatt is in the bar playing eight-handed poker, the band is playing a song called " | + | In the scene where Wyatt is in the bar playing eight-handed poker, the band is playing a song called |
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| + | The movie did portray the feud between the Clantons and the Earps which was factual. The film also took a lot of liberties with the story of the O.K. Corral shootout. They did get some of the surroundings correct as the background and the clothes. The movie also got right the usage of ' | ||
| ====== Questions about interpretation ====== | ====== Questions about interpretation ====== | ||
| This movie contains all of the classic elements of a good Western. The main message is that good triumphs over evil. **There is a righteous hero and an evil villain** However, one thing that John Ford does differently is that he gives his characters a much more human and emotional side. Even though Old Man Clanton is ruthless and bad, at the end his humanity is revealed when he mourns for his sons. The characters in this film are stock characters that are always found in Westerns. However, they are much more developed than characters I have seen in other classic Westerns. -Maddie Shiflett | This movie contains all of the classic elements of a good Western. The main message is that good triumphs over evil. **There is a righteous hero and an evil villain** However, one thing that John Ford does differently is that he gives his characters a much more human and emotional side. Even though Old Man Clanton is ruthless and bad, at the end his humanity is revealed when he mourns for his sons. The characters in this film are stock characters that are always found in Westerns. However, they are much more developed than characters I have seen in other classic Westerns. -Maddie Shiflett | ||
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| The death of Doc Holliday in the film--which in actuality, as others have already pointed out, did not occur at OK Corral, but of consumption in 1887--can be seen as the culmination of his long-standing disregard for his own life. Not until Chihuahua dies does Holliday approach Wyatt and offer to help him fight the Clantons at the OK Corral--not until his last hope for self-redemption had been denied. What does the fulfillment of this desire to seek out death mean about how mental illness was perceived at the time in which this movie was set, or the time in which it was made? ~Will Everett | The death of Doc Holliday in the film--which in actuality, as others have already pointed out, did not occur at OK Corral, but of consumption in 1887--can be seen as the culmination of his long-standing disregard for his own life. Not until Chihuahua dies does Holliday approach Wyatt and offer to help him fight the Clantons at the OK Corral--not until his last hope for self-redemption had been denied. What does the fulfillment of this desire to seek out death mean about how mental illness was perceived at the time in which this movie was set, or the time in which it was made? ~Will Everett | ||
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| + | This movie did a great a job at painting a very white version of the west . It only mentioned one minority group that followed the stereotype of drunk Indians in saloons. It made no mention of the diverse populations that were migrating out west. Where are the non-white people at? –William Roszell | ||
| ====== The movie as a primary source of its time ====== | ====== The movie as a primary source of its time ====== | ||
| What this movie says about the 1940's is that people wanted to be entertained and wanted to celebrate classic American heroes. Westerns were very popular at this time because, as a genre, they generally take pride in America' | What this movie says about the 1940's is that people wanted to be entertained and wanted to celebrate classic American heroes. Westerns were very popular at this time because, as a genre, they generally take pride in America' | ||
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| One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, | One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, | ||
| + | This movie didn't seem like it was trying to present a complex image of it's characters in the way that more modern Western movies would try to do, like the Wyatt Earp film from 1994. It reflected the time period it was made in that I think people just really wanted to see a more black and white depiction of heroes and villains in 1946. They were going to the movies to be entertained. - Sam Hartz | ||
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| + | My Darling Clementine is a classic western that attempts to depict the definition of what a manliness in 1940’s .–William Roszell | ||
| ====== Comparing the reading to the movie ====== | ====== Comparing the reading to the movie ====== | ||
| - | Many women wrote of their hardships moving west. Chihuahua sings of " | + | Many women wrote of their hardships moving west. Chihuahua sings of " |
| It seems that they used Debs as a reference for Kenehan, because a lot of the things in Debs's " | It seems that they used Debs as a reference for Kenehan, because a lot of the things in Debs's " | ||
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| The movie is simply one that says that it is historically accurate—is not—but is an awesome western film that resonates with viewers. Rather than serving as a secondary source of the gunfight at the OK corral it mimics Gone with the Wind in that it shows a romanticized version of its setting—in Clementine’s case, the West. -Lake Wiley | The movie is simply one that says that it is historically accurate—is not—but is an awesome western film that resonates with viewers. Rather than serving as a secondary source of the gunfight at the OK corral it mimics Gone with the Wind in that it shows a romanticized version of its setting—in Clementine’s case, the West. -Lake Wiley | ||
| - | One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, | + | One of the aspects of this film that shows that it is a source of its time is its treatment of women. One way in which I like to look at the treatment of women in films is through the Bechdel test. For a film to pass the Bechdel test it must have three things: 1) two named female characters 2) these characters must have a conversation with one another 3) the conversation needs to be about something other than a man. Not surprisingly, |
329/question/329--week_9_questions_comments-2018.1541044928.txt.gz · Last modified: 2018/11/01 04:02 by 76.78.225.74