329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments
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329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments [2016/10/27 12:22] – [5 Comparing the reading to the movie] afanghel | 329:question:329--week_9_questions_comments [2018/10/31 19:33] (current) – [3 Questions about interpretation] wroszell | ||
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The movie got the names of the Earp brothers, Doc Holliday, and some of the Clanton brothers right. It was set in Tombstone and mentioned Dodge City. It also included Doc having tuberculosis and he coughs throughout the movie. | The movie got the names of the Earp brothers, Doc Holliday, and some of the Clanton brothers right. It was set in Tombstone and mentioned Dodge City. It also included Doc having tuberculosis and he coughs throughout the movie. | ||
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I'm not entirely sure if this can be considered an accuracy based on how white people viewed Native Americans, or an inaccuracy based on what we know, but the way that Indians were looked down on as second class citizens was accurate to the time period.** --- // | I'm not entirely sure if this can be considered an accuracy based on how white people viewed Native Americans, or an inaccuracy based on what we know, but the way that Indians were looked down on as second class citizens was accurate to the time period.** --- // | ||
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**As my friend and I watched //My Darling Clementine//, | **As my friend and I watched //My Darling Clementine//, | ||
- | In reference to what Nancy said, in all likelihood the character of " | + | In reference to what Nancy said, in all likelihood the character of " |
====== 3 Questions about interpretation ====== | ====== 3 Questions about interpretation ====== | ||
**The two biggest issues I had with the movie were how the film depicted race along with gender roles. In one of the beginning scene Wyatt casually comes out of the barber shop to save the town from Indian Charlie. Indian Charlie is shown shooting a gun with abandon and very drunk. When Wyatt ' | **The two biggest issues I had with the movie were how the film depicted race along with gender roles. In one of the beginning scene Wyatt casually comes out of the barber shop to save the town from Indian Charlie. Indian Charlie is shown shooting a gun with abandon and very drunk. When Wyatt ' | ||
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The glorification of what once was... the revitalized, | The glorification of what once was... the revitalized, | ||
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** | ** | ||
The film's depictions of non-whites was pretty troubling. Of course, this isn't a surprise, but it's still important. In the Southwest, Hispanics actually made up the majority of the population. Although Tombstone was a boomtown that would have seen a lot of white migrants from the East, it seemed that Hispanics were pretty underrepresented given the historical facts. Native Americans were represented in the form of " | The film's depictions of non-whites was pretty troubling. Of course, this isn't a surprise, but it's still important. In the Southwest, Hispanics actually made up the majority of the population. Although Tombstone was a boomtown that would have seen a lot of white migrants from the East, it seemed that Hispanics were pretty underrepresented given the historical facts. Native Americans were represented in the form of " | ||
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- | Surely the character of Clementine was created for reasons aside from using the song... As has been pointed out, Clementine Carter is a fictional character. | + | Surely the character of Clementine was created for reasons aside from using the song... As has been pointed out, Clementine Carter is a fictional character. |
** | ** | ||
The messages about gender in the movie are fascinating. First, the way that Earp treats Chihuahua, roughly grabbing her, pulling her outside, and pushing her into a water trough clearly indicates to the audience that she is not a lady. Yes, this is because she is presumably a prostitute (or at least an " | The messages about gender in the movie are fascinating. First, the way that Earp treats Chihuahua, roughly grabbing her, pulling her outside, and pushing her into a water trough clearly indicates to the audience that she is not a lady. Yes, this is because she is presumably a prostitute (or at least an " | ||
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**Why was this made into a love story? Is this entangled with the gendered and racialized messages (described above)? --Julia Peterson** | **Why was this made into a love story? Is this entangled with the gendered and racialized messages (described above)? --Julia Peterson** | ||
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+ | This movie did a great a job at painting a very white version of the west . It only mentioned one minority group that followed the stereotype of drunk Indians in saloons. It made no mention of the diverse populations that were migrating out west. Where are the non-white people at? --William Roszell | ||
====== 4 Movie as a Primary Source about the time in which it was made ====== | ====== 4 Movie as a Primary Source about the time in which it was made ====== | ||
This film was made in a time when western genre films were becoming increasingly popular. In 1946 the west was still seen as an open land full of promise, but equally as harsh. Films like //My Darling Clementine// | This film was made in a time when western genre films were becoming increasingly popular. In 1946 the west was still seen as an open land full of promise, but equally as harsh. Films like //My Darling Clementine// | ||
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“My Darling Clementine” has no shortage of elements that characterize the 1940’s, a time when story telling was more imperative in cinema than fact telling historic events. As far as the story, this film (to me) is the embodiment of the (now Classic) Western genre which was hugely popular at that time. **The film’s cast is comprised of actors who display the typical Hollywood, glamorous features/ | “My Darling Clementine” has no shortage of elements that characterize the 1940’s, a time when story telling was more imperative in cinema than fact telling historic events. As far as the story, this film (to me) is the embodiment of the (now Classic) Western genre which was hugely popular at that time. **The film’s cast is comprised of actors who display the typical Hollywood, glamorous features/ | ||
+ | My Darling Clementine is a classic western that attempts to depict the definition of what a manliness in 1940’s .--William Roszell | ||
====== 5 Comparing the reading to the movie ====== | ====== 5 Comparing the reading to the movie ====== | ||
**The movie reflects the way people romanticize the idea of outlaws and cowboys shown in the description of the Popular Account of the Death of Jesse James. In both, people who were never there and do not know what really happened tell a story of what they think to have happened even if it is not the full truth or in such detail. In the case of the primary source, they used flowery language and what they think may have went down to make the story sound better. In the movie they use a fictional retelling of an event to make it sound better**. --- // | **The movie reflects the way people romanticize the idea of outlaws and cowboys shown in the description of the Popular Account of the Death of Jesse James. In both, people who were never there and do not know what really happened tell a story of what they think to have happened even if it is not the full truth or in such detail. In the case of the primary source, they used flowery language and what they think may have went down to make the story sound better. In the movie they use a fictional retelling of an event to make it sound better**. --- // | ||
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- | I think this movie is important to study because it probably is the most important western ever made. It’s become one of those movies that you have never seen in your life but you know so much about it just from others copying it. Personally, I had never seen the movie before (which is shocking because of the amount of westerns my family watches), but if you had asked me a week ago if I knew the song I would’ve said yes. If you had asked me if I knew the name O.K. Corral I would’ve said yes. While I was watching the movie, every time there was a shot of Monument Valley I would think of how this is such a classic western movie thing without realizing this was probably one of the movies, if not the movie, that made it famous for that. This movie is important because it is one of the movies that have made such a huge impact on our culture without many people knowing. --- // | + | I think this movie is important to study because it probably is the most important western ever made. It’s become one of those movies that you have never seen in your life but you know so much about it just from others copying it. Personally, I had never seen the movie before (which is shocking because of the amount of westerns my family watches), but if you had asked me a week ago if I knew the song I would’ve said yes. If you had asked me if I knew the name O.K. Corral I would’ve said yes. While I was watching the movie, every time there was a shot of Monument Valley I would think of how this is such a classic western movie thing without realizing this was probably one of the movies, if not the movie, that made it famous for that. **This movie is important because it is one of the movies that have made such a huge impact on our culture without many people knowing.** --- // |
- | While this movie has practically no historical accuracy within it, except the names of the male main characters, it serves as a separate piece of American history categorized in the classic genre of Westerns. The themes in this movie are hardly realistic in general, capturing the idealized West better than any event in particular. The (male) characters are cool, morally defined, and interesting. The plot is exciting. But historically it means nothing. Of course, there’s no getting around its harmful stereotypes of Native American and Mexican cultures, and the women are next to nothing in terms of plot. These issues are worthy of contesting in the historical discussion of the West, and yet I have to give this movie a pass; it’s not nearly as bad as some of the ones we’ve watched so far. In fact, this is probably because the movie doesn’t feel historical at all. It doesn’t try to highlight or flesh out any of the cultures it uses in the background, so the inaccuracies and offenses can’t bubble to the surface more than a couple times. I would kill to see people of color and women who aren’t either background filler or helpless without their white men, but this movie could have been worse in those areas. I would sooner accept it as a pretty decent Western than consider it a historical account of the events at the O.K. Corral. | + | While this movie has practically no historical accuracy within it, except the names of the male main characters, it serves as a separate piece of American history categorized in the classic genre of Westerns. The themes in this movie are hardly realistic in general, capturing the idealized West better than any event in particular. The (male) characters are cool, morally defined, and interesting. The plot is exciting. But historically it means nothing. Of course, there’s no getting around its harmful stereotypes of Native American and Mexican cultures, and the women are next to nothing in terms of plot. **These issues are worthy of contesting in the historical discussion of the West, and yet I have to give this movie a pass; it’s not nearly as bad as some of the ones we’ve watched so far. In fact, this is probably because the movie doesn’t feel historical at all. It doesn’t try to highlight or flesh out any of the cultures it uses in the background, so the inaccuracies and offenses can’t bubble to the surface more than a couple times. I would kill to see people of color and women who aren’t either background filler or helpless without their white men, but this movie could have been worse in those areas. I would sooner accept it as a pretty decent Western than consider it a historical account of the events at the O.K. Corral.** --- // |
- | Films and TV shows about Wyatt Earp and the Gunfight at the OK Corral have been made countless times over (Earp has probably been depicted upwards of fifty times). I am personally partial to Tombstone (1993) and have read that it is one of the most accurate of the Wyatt Earp portrayals. I have learned about Wyatt Earp a little bit on various documentaries and such and Earp’s true character always surprises me. He thought so much of himself that he actually sought after biographers and filmmakers to tell his story. Why has Wyatt Earp become such an iconic Western figure? Does he deserve this many depictions of himself? Oh, and P.S.- John Wayne actually met Wyatt Earp when he was really young and trying to get into acting and used him as inspiration for his later Western characters. | + | Films and TV shows about Wyatt Earp and the Gunfight at the OK Corral have been made countless times over (Earp has probably been depicted upwards of fifty times). I am personally partial to Tombstone (1993) and have read that it is one of the most accurate of the Wyatt Earp portrayals. I have learned about Wyatt Earp a little bit on various documentaries and such and Earp’s true character always surprises me. He thought so much of himself that he actually sought after biographers and filmmakers to tell his story. |
2016/10/26 14:07// | 2016/10/26 14:07// | ||
- | I feel like since this movie was so important, it set the bar for those to come and became a pinnacle to mimic in future films of this genre. This film sets the tone for a film fantasy we have of "The West" in film. " John Ford’s permanent authority in film history maintains his influence over today’s directors, most significantly those of the Western, few as they may be, by outlining the tools that every new addition into the genre either conforms to, or, in the case of Revisionist Westerns, uses as a platform to operate against. Ford’s themes and techniques could be found in any number of Westerns from his era or since" http:// | + | I feel like since this movie was so important, it set the bar for those to come and became a pinnacle to mimic in future films of this genre. This film sets the tone for a film fantasy we have of "The West" in film. " John Ford’s permanent authority in film history maintains his influence over today’s directors, most significantly those of the Western, few as they may be, by outlining the tools that every new addition into the genre either conforms to, or, in the case of Revisionist Westerns, uses as a platform to operate against. |
There is no doubt that the film is among the worst in terms of historical inaccuracy. It should be noted, however, that this film and its director helped revitalize a genre that had largely been forgotten. It led to the Western genre boom that ran up until the 1960s. It is also culturally important as shows John Ford’s filmmaking and cinematographic genius. --- // | There is no doubt that the film is among the worst in terms of historical inaccuracy. It should be noted, however, that this film and its director helped revitalize a genre that had largely been forgotten. It led to the Western genre boom that ran up until the 1960s. It is also culturally important as shows John Ford’s filmmaking and cinematographic genius. --- // | ||
- | Why do we expect westerns to be historically accurate? | + | **Why do we expect westerns to be historically accurate? |
This was one of the original westerns; it has many tropes associated with the genre. There' | This was one of the original westerns; it has many tropes associated with the genre. There' | ||
- | So there are an obvious number of historic inaccuracies within the film (so what), but while viewing it, I decided that Ford (probably) wanted to share his interpretation of the Old West and merely used the story of Wyatt Earp as a vessel for his vision. To do this, he chose to tailor history to “his story”, placing less emphasis on factual events. For example, he decided to make Doc Holiday’s profession that of a surgeon rather than dentistry. This modification would be more useful to the story when Chihuahua requires much needed medical attention. I believe Ford’s accuracies are revealed in other aspects of the late 19th century West, like Scenery (arid and treeless), and the gender roles of people living in a lawless society where violence can breakout at a moment’s notice. --- // | + | So there are an obvious number of historic inaccuracies within the film (so what), but while viewing it, I decided that **Ford (probably) wanted to share his interpretation of the Old West and merely used the story of Wyatt Earp as a vessel for his vision.** To do this, he chose to tailor history to “his story”, placing less emphasis on factual events. For example, he decided to make Doc Holiday’s profession that of a surgeon rather than dentistry. This modification would be more useful to the story when Chihuahua requires much needed medical attention. I believe Ford’s accuracies are revealed in other aspects of the late 19th century West, like Scenery (arid and treeless), and the gender roles of people living in a lawless society where violence can breakout at a moment’s notice. --- // |
329/question/329--week_9_questions_comments.1477570952.txt.gz · Last modified: 2016/10/27 12:22 by afanghel