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329:question:329--week_7_questions_comments-2018 [2018/10/25 13:15] – [The movie as a primary source of its time] 192.65.245.79329:question:329--week_7_questions_comments-2018 [2018/10/25 13:33] (current) – [Errors in fact] 192.65.245.79
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 ====== Errors in fact ====== ====== Errors in fact ======
  
-The movie gets a lot right historically with the liberties mostly for characters. One minor thing about Robert Gould Shaw's depiction is that historically he initially rejected the offer to command the 54th Massachusetts the first time, and a few days later changed his mind. While in the movie he accepts the offer the day he was given it. Historically he was given the offer by a letter delivered by his father, while in the movie he was asked in person by Governor Andrew and Frederick Douglas. [[https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Gould-Shaw]]+The movie gets a lot right historically with the liberties mostly for characters. One minor thing about Robert Gould Shaw's depiction is that historically he initially rejected the offer to command the 54th Massachusetts the first time, and a few days later changed his mind. While in the movie he accepts the offer the day he was given it. Historically he was given the offer by a letter delivered by his father, while in the movie he was asked in person by Governor Andrew and Frederick Douglas. [[https://www.britannica.com/biography/Robert-Gould-Shaw]] -Kyle Moore
  
 In this film, Robert Gould Shaw's second-in-command was Major Cabot Forbes, Robert's friend and essentially a brother in arms. In reality, Cabot Forbes wasn't a real soldier during the Civil War, much less the battle at Fort Wagner. Robert Gould Shaw's real second-in-command was a man named Edward Needles Hallowell. Forbes acts as the Hallowell of this film, and apparently his name is a fusion of the names of two of Shaw's friends of the same last names. Also, it is important to know that Hallowell didn't die at Fort Wagner; while he was fatally wounded, he would escape along with the other half of the regiment that managed to make it out. I point this out because it is heavily implied in the final charge that Hallowell's character in the film (Forbes) died alongside the other major characters (in particular, Morgan Freeman's character). You can take it with a pinch of salt though, since the only confirmed kills we see post-battle are Malcom X and Ferris Bueller. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/12926/edward-needles-hallowell --Robert Dallas In this film, Robert Gould Shaw's second-in-command was Major Cabot Forbes, Robert's friend and essentially a brother in arms. In reality, Cabot Forbes wasn't a real soldier during the Civil War, much less the battle at Fort Wagner. Robert Gould Shaw's real second-in-command was a man named Edward Needles Hallowell. Forbes acts as the Hallowell of this film, and apparently his name is a fusion of the names of two of Shaw's friends of the same last names. Also, it is important to know that Hallowell didn't die at Fort Wagner; while he was fatally wounded, he would escape along with the other half of the regiment that managed to make it out. I point this out because it is heavily implied in the final charge that Hallowell's character in the film (Forbes) died alongside the other major characters (in particular, Morgan Freeman's character). You can take it with a pinch of salt though, since the only confirmed kills we see post-battle are Malcom X and Ferris Bueller. https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/12926/edward-needles-hallowell --Robert Dallas
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 ====== Things the Movie got right ====== ====== Things the Movie got right ======
  
-I think the movie did a good job of showing the complexity of race relations in the North, and especially in the military. None of the white characters given screen time were 100% non-racist, except for maybe Forbes/Cary Elwes/The Dread Pirate Roberts. Shaw was not always kind to the soldiers, but had more of a practical officer-subordinate relationship with them. The Irish officer was flat out racist. I also liked that this film showed various black perspectives that were not overly stereotyped, much unlike Gone With the Wind. It was also quite true to the readings from Gooding, who described the high morale of the troops and willingness to fight for the Union. --Erin Shaw+I think the movie did a good job of showing the complexity of race relations in the North, and especially in the military. None of the white characters given screen time were 100% non-racist, except for maybe Forbes/Cary Elwes/The Dread Pirate Roberts. Shaw was not always kind to the soldiers, but **had more of a practical officer-subordinate relationship with them.** The Irish officer was flat out racist. I also liked that this film showed various black perspectives that were not overly stereotyped, much unlike Gone With the Wind. It was also quite true to the readings from Gooding, who described the high morale of the troops and willingness to fight for the Union. --Erin Shaw
  
 The movie did a really good job of showing the final battle. While the first scene depicting the battle of Antietam is best described by a New York Times film review by Vincent Canby where he says "'Glory' begins in the manner of one of those re-enactments one sees at battlefields where, in cause of tourism on summer weekends, local citizens put on period costumes and play at history." But when you get to Fort Wagner the director did a good job of showing the confusion and desperation of battle. There was a mix of hand to hand combat as well as with weapons which was very common during the Civil War. The battle scene comes across as men fighting to just survive and out of pure desperation which is interesting and does not always come across in battle scenes. https://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/14/movies/review-film-black-combat-bravery-in-the-civil-war.html  --Ellora Larsen The movie did a really good job of showing the final battle. While the first scene depicting the battle of Antietam is best described by a New York Times film review by Vincent Canby where he says "'Glory' begins in the manner of one of those re-enactments one sees at battlefields where, in cause of tourism on summer weekends, local citizens put on period costumes and play at history." But when you get to Fort Wagner the director did a good job of showing the confusion and desperation of battle. There was a mix of hand to hand combat as well as with weapons which was very common during the Civil War. The battle scene comes across as men fighting to just survive and out of pure desperation which is interesting and does not always come across in battle scenes. https://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/14/movies/review-film-black-combat-bravery-in-the-civil-war.html  --Ellora Larsen
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 Going off of Grace, I do think the movie did a good job showing the struggle the 54th regiment went through. It showed the complexity of the differentiation of between the African American soldiers and white commanding officers. --Caroline Collier Going off of Grace, I do think the movie did a good job showing the struggle the 54th regiment went through. It showed the complexity of the differentiation of between the African American soldiers and white commanding officers. --Caroline Collier
  
-The movie really got how Shaw was as a colonel for the 54th Massachusetts Infantry Regiment. He fought along side African American soldiers and even sought out to make sure they got what they deserved as soldiers, such as the equal pay. Another thing the film got right was the final scene when the Confederates were burying the fallen Union; they buried Shaw with the other fallen 54th soldiers as an insult, when his family saw it as an honor. --Alyx Wilson+The movie really got how Shaw was as a colonel for the 54th Massachusetts Infantry Regiment. He fought along side African American soldiers and even sought out to make sure they got what they deserved as soldiers, such as the equal pay. **Another thing the film got right was the final scene when the Confederates were burying the fallen Union; they buried Shaw with the other fallen 54th soldiers as an insult, when his family saw it as an honor.** --Alyx Wilson
  
 I agree with Erin’s comment about the different perspective of black soldiers. I think the film reflects what black soldiers felt while they were in the regiment, although all wished to join they began realizing that they weren’t being given the same rights and opportunities as the white soldiers. Also, one of the scenes I thought to be quite powerful is when Colonel Shaw tears his check in two. He actually did refuse his check because the pay for black soldiers was not equal to the pay of white soldiers. Also, the battles were quite graphic and believable, it conveys the disorientation and fear of the soldiers. The scene where the 54th regiment believed they defeated a group of Confederates and began cheering only to realize how wrong they were, clearly depicts how different they expected a battle to be. When they see many more Confederate soldiers headed their they had “oh $%@#” written all over their faces.  I agree with Erin’s comment about the different perspective of black soldiers. I think the film reflects what black soldiers felt while they were in the regiment, although all wished to join they began realizing that they weren’t being given the same rights and opportunities as the white soldiers. Also, one of the scenes I thought to be quite powerful is when Colonel Shaw tears his check in two. He actually did refuse his check because the pay for black soldiers was not equal to the pay of white soldiers. Also, the battles were quite graphic and believable, it conveys the disorientation and fear of the soldiers. The scene where the 54th regiment believed they defeated a group of Confederates and began cheering only to realize how wrong they were, clearly depicts how different they expected a battle to be. When they see many more Confederate soldiers headed their they had “oh $%@#” written all over their faces. 
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 Upon the 54th's arrival in the South, just before Shaw meets Montgomery, two Union soldiers unfurled a variant of the U.S. flag on which the stars are arrayed in a flower pattern. This variant of the flag, known as the "Great Flower flag", was commonly used during the time of the Civil War. Source: https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-1861.html ~Will Everett Upon the 54th's arrival in the South, just before Shaw meets Montgomery, two Union soldiers unfurled a variant of the U.S. flag on which the stars are arrayed in a flower pattern. This variant of the flag, known as the "Great Flower flag", was commonly used during the time of the Civil War. Source: https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/us-1861.html ~Will Everett
  
-I think that this movie was one of the most accurate historically that we’ve watched this year. The way it handled race relations and included the perspectives of the black characters is especially noticeable in comparison to Gone With the Wind. - Sam Hartz+**I think that this movie was one of the most accurate historically that we’ve watched this year. The way it handled race relations and included the perspectives of the black characters is especially noticeable in comparison to Gone With the Wind.** - Sam Hartz
  
 ====== Questions about interpretation ====== ====== Questions about interpretation ======
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 This movie is very important because it is not only an entertaining movie that will draw various audiences in, it is a rather accurate movie. While watching this movie, viewers can obtain quality content on what this time period was like visually and physically, as well as what it was like for the experiences and struggles of black Americans who fought in the Civil War. -Erin Andrewlevich This movie is very important because it is not only an entertaining movie that will draw various audiences in, it is a rather accurate movie. While watching this movie, viewers can obtain quality content on what this time period was like visually and physically, as well as what it was like for the experiences and struggles of black Americans who fought in the Civil War. -Erin Andrewlevich
  
-The film works to tell the story of the heroic African Americans who fought during the Civil War, and for the most part it does this successfully. It does a good job of showing that even though the North is typically associated with abolitionism, there was still racism among the soldiers and commanding officers. However, even this was lessened by the seeming acceptance of the soldiers close to the end. It also showed how the treatment of African Americans changed based on how well they were educated with the way Thomas was treated particularly at the beginning.  –Sky Horne +The film works to tell the story of the heroic African Americans who fought during the Civil War, and for the most part it does this successfully.** It does a good job of showing that even though the North is typically associated with abolitionism, there was still racism among the soldiers and commanding officers**. However, even this was lessened by the seeming acceptance of the soldiers close to the end. It also showed how the treatment of African Americans changed based on how well they were educated with the way Thomas was treated particularly at the beginning.  –Sky Horne 
  
 "What's the point. Ain't nobody gonna win. It's just gonna go on and on," Private Trip. "It can't go on forever," Shaw. "Yeah, but ain't nobody gonna win," Trip. "Somebody's gonna win," Shaw. "Well you, you get to go on back to Boston, live in a big house and all that. What about us? What do we get?" Trip. This scene of the movie where Shaw and Trip exchange words for the first time is a pivotal moment in the movie. It contributes to that so what question of what are the creators of this film trying to convey to us through this story. This movie portrays the African American soldiers' contributions to the war effort, but it also displayed the reality of the times, that when the war ended, it didn't mean there would be a happy ending for all African Americans, it was only the beginning of a long road to true freedom and equality. -Amiti Colson "What's the point. Ain't nobody gonna win. It's just gonna go on and on," Private Trip. "It can't go on forever," Shaw. "Yeah, but ain't nobody gonna win," Trip. "Somebody's gonna win," Shaw. "Well you, you get to go on back to Boston, live in a big house and all that. What about us? What do we get?" Trip. This scene of the movie where Shaw and Trip exchange words for the first time is a pivotal moment in the movie. It contributes to that so what question of what are the creators of this film trying to convey to us through this story. This movie portrays the African American soldiers' contributions to the war effort, but it also displayed the reality of the times, that when the war ended, it didn't mean there would be a happy ending for all African Americans, it was only the beginning of a long road to true freedom and equality. -Amiti Colson
  
-The movie shows how complicated war really is and how many things about war tear apart people but also bring them together. The movie took a very important part of American Civil War history that is more unknown than known. The complex views of of whites about slaves and freed blacks are represented well in all of the aspects we talked about in class. The movie shows what life was like for all walks of life for black men. Edward Zwick does a good job of representing the history of the 54th Massachusetts and providing a entertaining movie to watch. This shows a very positive example for historical films. This movie is not a monument to southern pride like "Gone with the Wind" but it shows the good and bad of the north in a realistic way. This movie provides a historical and entertaining accurate portrayal of African American soldiers in the Civil War. --Jack Hagn+The movie shows how complicated war really is and how many things about war tear apart people but also bring them together. The movie took a very important part of American Civil War history that is more unknown than known. The complex views of of whites about slaves and freed blacks are represented well in all of the aspects we talked about in class. The movie shows what life was like for all walks of life for black men. Edward Zwick does a good job of representing the history of the 54th Massachusetts and providing a entertaining movie to watch. This shows a very positive example for historical films. **This movie is not a monument to southern pride like "Gone with the Wind" but it shows the good and bad of the north in a realistic way.** This movie provides a historical and entertaining accurate portrayal of African American soldiers in the Civil War. --Jack Hagn
  
-The movie shows the Civil War in an accurate way while also doing a good job of handling complexities around race and society in that time period. This sets it apart from the other movies that we have discussed up until now. I think that it was a pretty honest portrayal, and didn’t have one of those overly optimistic post-racial endings like in the way that The Patriot did. It did all this while still being a fun movie to watch. - Sam Hartz+**The movie shows the Civil War in an accurate way while also doing a good job of handling complexities around race and society in that time period.** This sets it apart from the other movies that we have discussed up until now. I think that it was a pretty honest portrayal, and didn’t have one of those overly optimistic post-racial endings like in the way that The Patriot did. It did all this while still being a fun movie to watch. - Sam Hartz
329/question/329--week_7_questions_comments-2018.1540473300.txt.gz · Last modified: 2018/10/25 13:15 by 192.65.245.79