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| 329:question:329--week_6_questions_comments-2020 [2020/10/01 12:13] – 76.78.225.213 | 329:question:329--week_6_questions_comments-2020 [2020/10/01 13:20] (current) – [II.Problems with historical accuracy? Errors in fact?] janis_shurtleff |
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| Gone with the Wind presents a southern perspective that looks at the problems during and after the Civil War with romantic eyes for the southern gentry. With the arrival of general Sherman at Atlanta he is given no screen time but is rather presented as a force of evil as the screen is coated in flames as soldiers advance. Even the carpetbaggers are shown as a careless malevolent group as they arrive laughing and actively insult the southerners. The whole interpretation of the film plays the southern gentry as victims of the northerners in both language and presentation. The race relations presented in the film is by far the most egregious aspect as the slaves are a happy folk who stick with their masters. The film blatantly ignores the periods race relations while presenting horrible stereotypes. The film constantly presents the southern gentry of victims of northern oppression while ignoring the many factors that led to war as it rather presents the issue as a given occurrence of southern honor rather than being the result of any political or social interests. With the film’s focus on the upper classes it ignores many of the dynamics that are only hinted at with such characters as the slave driving having a mulatto child that died and finding financial success in the aftermath of the war. The plantation owner is presented as the primary example of the south. Rather than commenting on the ideas of the past the film perpetuates a romanticized view of the old south, counter to the historical record. -Robert Keitz | Gone with the Wind presents a southern perspective that looks at the problems during and after the Civil War with romantic eyes for the southern gentry. With the arrival of general Sherman at Atlanta he is given no screen time but is rather presented as a force of evil as the screen is coated in flames as soldiers advance. Even the carpetbaggers are shown as a careless malevolent group as they arrive laughing and actively insult the southerners. The whole interpretation of the film plays the southern gentry as victims of the northerners in both language and presentation. The race relations presented in the film is by far the most egregious aspect as the slaves are a happy folk who stick with their masters. The film blatantly ignores the periods race relations while presenting horrible stereotypes. The film constantly presents the southern gentry of victims of northern oppression while ignoring the many factors that led to war as it rather presents the issue as a given occurrence of southern honor rather than being the result of any political or social interests. With the film’s focus on the upper classes it ignores many of the dynamics that are only hinted at with such characters as the slave driving having a mulatto child that died and finding financial success in the aftermath of the war. The plantation owner is presented as the primary example of the south. Rather than commenting on the ideas of the past the film perpetuates a romanticized view of the old south, counter to the historical record. -Robert Keitz |
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| One issue I have with the accuracy of this film is the treatment of the enslaved peoples after the war. While Sherman or "The Great Invader" is closing on there is the few scenes where Prissy is scolded and beat by Scarlett. Scarlett threatens to "sell her south and beat the hyde off of her". The issue in accuracy comes after they return to Tara. All of a sudden Scarlett's sisters are out picking cotton and Scarlett is telling her father that she would "never tell them (Mammy, Pork, Prissy) to do anything she's not doing herself". This likely wouldn't have happened. The complete 180 they have Scarlett do after the war is ridiculous. There is also the scene where Scarlett and Ashley were discussing using prison labor instead of hiring freed slaves for the saw mill. Ashley says he will, "not make money off of the enforced labor and misery of others". Then Scarlett mentions that he had slaves and he says he was going to free them anyway before all of this happened." -Dan Dilks | One issue I have with the accuracy of this film is the treatment of the enslaved peoples after the war. While Sherman or "The Great Invader" is closing on there is the few scenes where Prissy is scolded and beat by Scarlett. Scarlett threatens to "sell her south and beat the hyde off of her". The issue in accuracy comes after they return to Tara. All of a sudden Scarlett's sisters are out picking cotton and **Scarlett is telling her father that she would "never tell them (Mammy, Pork, Prissy) to do anything she's not doing herself". This likely wouldn't have happened**. The complete 180 they have Scarlett do after the war is ridiculous. There is also the scene where Scarlett and Ashley were discussing using prison labor instead of hiring freed slaves for the saw mill. Ashley says he will, "not make money off of the enforced labor and misery of others". Then Scarlett mentions that he had slaves and he says he was going to free them anyway before all of this happened." -Dan Dilks |
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| This movie has several major historical inaccuracies. One problem that bothered me the most was the portrayal of enslaved African Americans and the concept of slavery itself. Slavery was glorified in the film and made out to be a better system than it was. Furthermore, the power dynamics between the slavers and the enslaved made it seem like enslaved people had more freedom and rights than they actually did. The way Mammy talked to Scarlett and most of the family would not have been okay at all during that time period. Plus African Americans hated being slaves, no one would have willingly stayed with their master after the Civil War so it's off-putting that Mammy and Pork would stay even after getting their freedom. -Purnaja Podduturi | This movie has several major historical inaccuracies. One problem that bothered me the most was the portrayal of enslaved African Americans and the concept of slavery itself. Slavery was glorified in the film and made out to be a better system than it was. Furthermore, the power dynamics between the slavers and the enslaved made it seem like enslaved people had more freedom and rights than they actually did. The way Mammy talked to Scarlett and most of the family would not have been okay at all during that time period. Plus African Americans hated being slaves, no one would have willingly stayed with their master after the Civil War so it's off-putting that Mammy and Pork would stay even after getting their freedom. -Purnaja Podduturi |
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| | The two female slave GWTW decided to depict were Mammy and Prissy. Mammy is portrayed as a beloved member of Scarlet’s family, who is happy to work and comfort Scarlet. Prissy is portrayed as naïve and scattered to the point of being a burden to Scarlett. Neither of these characters were representative of the horrors of being a female slave. As the Harriet Jacobs reading painfully described, female slaves were often raped and forced to have the children of their masters. After this they would be sold to not upset the mistresses and have to live in shame and humiliation. Mrs. James Steward and Mrs. Nancy Howard both fled to Canada to escape the atrocities of their masters, which included abuse and torture as punishment for things they did not do. The portrayal of slave women in this film is harmful because it lends to the concept of the “happy servant”. A figment of the white imagination this type of character is the embodiment of how the south accepted slavery, as it was not a bad thing but something that the slaves were “happy” to be a part of. – Janis Shurtleff |
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| There were definitely a lot of problems with historical accuracy, and one of the most apparent problems was the portrayal of slavery. **It was portrayed as if slavery was not a horrific, torturous system; but one that helped African Americans and allowed them to live better than they had before.** I also think that some of Scarlett's behavior would not have been accepted, yet for the sake of the movie, she was allowed to be perceived as an independent, powerful woman. Especially after the intermission, when she went into business with a man that was not her husband and continued to make her own decisions without her husband. -- Mariah Morton | There were definitely a lot of problems with historical accuracy, and one of the most apparent problems was the portrayal of slavery. **It was portrayed as if slavery was not a horrific, torturous system; but one that helped African Americans and allowed them to live better than they had before.** I also think that some of Scarlett's behavior would not have been accepted, yet for the sake of the movie, she was allowed to be perceived as an independent, powerful woman. Especially after the intermission, when she went into business with a man that was not her husband and continued to make her own decisions without her husband. -- Mariah Morton |
| ====== V. The "So, what?" question ====== | ====== V. The "So, what?" question ====== |
| As we had talked about in class, this was how the topic of the Civil War was presented to Americans in 1939. Of course there are some things this movie does get correct, like the period clothing, the timeline of the war, and the devastating aftermath of the Civil War. But, there are some issues within the movie itself. There is recognition of these issues, and today there are warnings and disclaimers stating that. I feel like this might have been a decent movie in its time, but today there are many movies and documentaries that are much better representations of the Civil War, and slavery.- Kaylee Williams | As we had talked about in class, this was how the topic of the Civil War was presented to Americans in 1939. Of course there are some things this movie does get correct, like the period clothing, the timeline of the war, and the devastating aftermath of the Civil War. But, there are some issues within the movie itself. There is recognition of these issues, and today there are warnings and disclaimers stating that. I feel like this might have been a decent movie in its time, but today there are many movies and documentaries that are much better representations of the Civil War, and slavery.- Kaylee Williams |
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| | The fact that this film is essentially blatant Lost Cause propaganda means that we cannot ignore the historical fallacies of it. This film is incredibly important to the history of filmmaking and the history of the United States popular culture, and without it's advancements I do not think film would be the same. However, unlike previous films where the historical inaccuracies were a bit problematic, this film can severely damage people's perception of history, and is trying to convince them of a narrative that is historically false. Whenever the characters mention the "moonlight and magnolias," the "Bonnie Blue flag," or shows images of the evil yankees burning their way across a "civilized land," the film is convincing you the Confederacy were in the right. And that cannot be ignored. --AJ DeGeorge |
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| Gone With The Wind is one of the most successful movies in the history of American Cinema. Not only was it a blockbuster about superheroes or a fictional topic, it was about a real-time period and about a story that could very well have been real. Everybody knew about the Civil War and reconstruction, some people were still alive who had fought in the war. The reason this is all important is because for many people, they see and remember Gone With The Wind when they think of this time period. They think this story is what happened to everyone. Whether they think the movie is accurate or not, the movie still pops into mind when thinking of the time period. Movies with such an influence have an even greater need to be accurate and true than others. A movie as popular as this, can create an entire culture about the topic. In this case, people see this movie as what the old south was like and what happened to it. They see the hardships that became of these people and they are sympathetic. They see how slaves and recently freed slaves were in the movie too. Once again, despite if the movie is accurate or not, these images last in people's minds. -Daniel Walker | Gone With The Wind is one of the most successful movies in the history of American Cinema. Not only was it a blockbuster about superheroes or a fictional topic, it was about a real-time period and about a story that could very well have been real. Everybody knew about the Civil War and reconstruction, some people were still alive who had fought in the war. The reason this is all important is because for many people, they see and remember Gone With The Wind when they think of this time period. They think this story is what happened to everyone. Whether they think the movie is accurate or not, the movie still pops into mind when thinking of the time period. Movies with such an influence have an even greater need to be accurate and true than others. A movie as popular as this, can create an entire culture about the topic. In this case, people see this movie as what the old south was like and what happened to it. They see the hardships that became of these people and they are sympathetic. They see how slaves and recently freed slaves were in the movie too. Once again, despite if the movie is accurate or not, these images last in people's minds. -Daniel Walker |
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| As a museum worker who has interacted with curious historic site visitors from around the country, I would argue that GWTW has affected public perception of the past more than any movie ever created. Even though younger Americans may not be as familiar with the piece as their elders who grew up in the past century, the tropes and treatments of historic lifeways perpetuated by this film are everywhere in the popular imagination. | As a museum worker who has interacted with curious historic site visitors from around the country, I would argue that **GWTW has affected public perception of the past more than any movie ever created**. Even though younger Americans may not be as familiar with the piece as their elders who grew up in the past century, the tropes and treatments of historic lifeways perpetuated by this film are everywhere in the popular imagination. |
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| Among these are the following stereotypes: the part-admirable and part-laughable image of stoic, acquiescing, and self-controlled gentlewomen who willingly or unwillingly injure themselves with tight stays; the casual approach to slavery and abuse of the enslaved when discussing southern history; the idyllic picture of a warm, sweat-tea-and-barbeque-laden, simple southern lifestyle. | Among these are the following stereotypes: the part-admirable and part-laughable image of stoic, acquiescing, and self-controlled gentlewomen who willingly or unwillingly injure themselves with tight stays; the casual approach to slavery and abuse of the enslaved when discussing southern history; the idyllic picture of a warm, sweat-tea-and-barbeque-laden, simple southern lifestyle. |
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| This movie impacted generations of Americans’ perceptions of the antebellum south, and it did so in a way that really altered their understanding of the ugly truth of slavery. This movie caught Americans’ attention, despite much of the population struggling to make ends meet, most of the nation saw the movie or read the book. It became a staple in American culture; my father who was born in 1960 remembers seeing the movie at a drive-in theater with his parents when he was 7(1967). This movie perpetuates the idealist vision of the antebellum south in that the confederacy was the victim in the narrative, not the slaves who were mistreated. The confederacy and white southerners were the ones who lost their land, lives, and affluence and not the slaves who were mistreated before, during, and well after the Civil War ended. Gone with the Wind impacted generations of Americans and their understanding of the horrors of slavery by grossly misinterpreting and glorify some conditions and common practices in the antebellum south. While in modern America, society has gotten a little better about understanding that movies are biased and somewhat learned not to believe everything that happens on screen, early 20th-century American society took much of what occurred in the movie as direct facts and a true depiction of the past. Analyzing this movie really exposes how the idealist view of the treatment of African Americans in the past and present is strengthened by pop culture in many ways, and it also displays how far-reaching the impacts of movies can truly be in society. -Morgan Gilbert | **This movie impacted generations of Americans’ perceptions of the antebellum south, and it did so in a way that really altered their understanding of the ugly truth of slavery.** This movie caught Americans’ attention, despite much of the population struggling to make ends meet, most of the nation saw the movie or read the book. It became **a staple in American culture**; my father who was born in 1960 remembers seeing the movie at a drive-in theater with his parents when he was 7(1967). This movie perpetuates **the idealist vision of the antebellum south in that the confederacy was the victim in the narrative, not the slaves who were mistreated**. The confederacy and white southerners were the ones who lost their land, lives, and affluence and not the slaves who were mistreated before, during, and well after the Civil War ended. Gone with the Wind impacted generations of Americans and their understanding of the horrors of slavery by grossly misinterpreting and glorify some conditions and common practices in the antebellum south. While in modern America, society has gotten a little better about understanding that movies are biased and somewhat learned not to believe everything that happens on screen, early 20th-century American society took much of what occurred in the movie as direct facts and a true depiction of the past. Analyzing this movie really exposes how the idealist view of the treatment of African Americans in the past and present is strengthened by pop culture in many ways, and it also displays how far-reaching the impacts of movies can truly be in society. -Morgan Gilbert |
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| This is one of the highest grossing movies ever. This influenced how so many people of the time perceived the Civil War, and to some extent still does. Too many people read it and want to hold on to that ideal version of the South, no matter how unrealistic it is. It's still a movie and book that holds cultural prestige, no matter how badly it's aged or how long ago it was made/written. -Madison Roberts | This is **one of the highest grossing movies ever**. This influenced how so many people of the time perceived the Civil War, and to some extent still does. Too many people read it and want to hold on to that ideal version of the South, no matter how unrealistic it is. It's still a movie and book that holds cultural prestige, no matter how badly it's aged or how long ago it was made/written. -Madison Roberts |
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| This movie is just blatant propaganda that definitely influenced the minds of multiple generations. It wants the viewer to feel bad for these people that lost "everything" and were forced into "poverty". Then all of a sudden what does Scarlett do? She starts living the American dream, she acquires a business and is very successful. Then she starts a family. She starts checking off all of those do it yourself boxes. Its pretty obvious. All of the main characters act like babies because they can't have their fun parties anymore, they want things the way they were when the land was "of grace and plenty". - Dan Dilks | This movie is just blatant propaganda that definitely influenced the minds of multiple generations. It wants the viewer to feel bad for these people that lost "everything" and were forced into "poverty". Then all of a sudden what does Scarlett do? She starts living the American dream, she acquires a business and is very successful. Then she starts a family. She starts checking off all of those do it yourself boxes. Its pretty obvious. All of the main characters act like babies because they can't have their fun parties anymore, they want things the way they were when the land was "of grace and plenty". - Dan Dilks |
| [[https://www.npr.org/2020/06/29/884551356/gone-with-the-wind-returns-to-hbo-max-with-intro-by-black-scholar]] | [[https://www.npr.org/2020/06/29/884551356/gone-with-the-wind-returns-to-hbo-max-with-intro-by-black-scholar]] |
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| This film is and was a wildly popular movie and just reading the reviews of it on Amazon demonstrates the incredibly problematic effect that this movie can have on the uneducated viewer. There are people out there who genuinely believe this film is an accurate depiction of the Antebellum South and that these views of slaves or "servants" as they are referred to consistently throughout the film. It depicts nearly all of the stereotypes of black slaves and freedmen throughout the film, especially through the portrayal of Prissy and Pork in the film. Yes, it does actually make an effort to represent some of the horrors of war, call out some of the faulty views of the South through Rhett, he himself his own complicated character, and does give Scarlett and some of the other female characters the benefit of growth and hardness in the time of war when it is necessary and called for and demonstrates how much of her helplessness and foolishness was an act and use of privilege. But it does so much more harm than good in supporting the idea of the glory of the Antebellum South, brushing over and mostly ignoring violence against blacks and northerners in the South following the end of the Civil War. It was painful to watch in several parts, especially as the primary focus of the movie is despite Scarlett's consistent strength and stubbornness to protect Tara and ruin her reputation as needed to get what she wants, she is always willing to throw herself into a man's arms as her solution to the problem, and she spends the entire film pining over a man, for the majority Ashley, then at the very end Rhett in time for him to leave her. Also, the fact that Rhett was just as unfaithful to Scarlett and finally decides to leave her after in a time of great stress, she runs to the man who's honorable love she's sought the whole film instead of her husband that she has fought with over and over again and who'd threatened to kill her within the last few months, made the ending of the film so frustrating. HE was able to leave without a major effect on his life and left her pining after him once again to literally go wait at her family home for him to eventually come back to her. It so poorly represents black people and women in this movie in reducing them to such two-dimensional characters, that this film is very problematic to watch without understanding the period it's about beforehand. - Ashley Dimino | This film is and was a wildly popular movie and just reading the reviews of it on Amazon demonstrates the incredibly problematic effect that this movie can have on the uneducated viewer. **There are people out there who genuinely believe this film is an accurate depiction of the Antebellum South** and that these views of slaves or "servants" as they are referred to consistently throughout the film. **It depicts nearly all of the stereotypes of black slaves and freedmen throughout the film, especially through the portrayal of Prissy and Pork in the film.** Yes, it does actually make an effort to **represent some of the horrors of war,** call out some of the faulty views of the South through Rhett, he himself his own complicated character, and does give Scarlett and some of the other female characters the benefit of growth and hardness in the time of war when it is necessary and called for and demonstrates how much of her helplessness and foolishness was an act and use of privilege. But it does so much more harm than good in supporting the idea of the glory of the Antebellum South, brushing over and mostly ignoring violence against blacks and northerners in the South following the end of the Civil War. It was painful to watch in several parts, especially as the primary focus of the movie is despite Scarlett's consistent strength and stubbornness to protect Tara and ruin her reputation as needed to get what she wants, she is always willing to throw herself into a man's arms as her solution to the problem, and she spends the entire film pining over a man, for the majority Ashley, then at the very end Rhett in time for him to leave her. Also, the fact that Rhett was just as unfaithful to Scarlett and finally decides to leave her after in a time of great stress, she runs to the man who's honorable love she's sought the whole film instead of her husband that she has fought with over and over again and who'd threatened to kill her within the last few months, made the ending of the film so frustrating. HE was able to leave without a major effect on his life and left her pining after him once again to literally go wait at her family home for him to eventually come back to her. It so poorly represents black people and women in this movie in reducing them to such two-dimensional characters, that this film is very problematic to watch without understanding the period it's about beforehand. - Ashley Dimino |
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