329:question:329--week_6_questions_comments
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| 329:question:329--week_6_questions_comments [2016/10/06 04:40] – [5 Comparing the reading to the movie] mlindse2 | 329:question:329--week_6_questions_comments [2016/10/06 14:18] (current) – nfanning | ||
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| Another thing the movie got wrong was a slave lecturing a white person. | Another thing the movie got wrong was a slave lecturing a white person. | ||
| + | We saw very few slaves in the film that actually worked in the fields, and the slaves that worked in the house were different than how real house slaves were treated. We saw that there were freed slaves walking around in town after the war was over, but we never actually see the slaves being freed or what it meant to them. As other people have said, they simply do not matter very much to the filmmakers or they serve as comic relief. I may be wrong, but I also think it was probably a stretch than a Catholic Irish family would have owned such a large plantation and had so much respect in Georgia at the time. | ||
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| + | i watched this film with my girlfriend this go round. From the beginning, when we first see Scarlett running, Mammy did not seem to be portraying a house slave well at all. My girlfriend was convinced that it was just help not a slave. Clearly in antebellum south mammy would be a slave and probably wouldn' | ||
| ====== 2 Things the Movie got right ====== | ====== 2 Things the Movie got right ====== | ||
| **Something that the film does get right is the way the men behave after the war**. You first have her father whose mental stability declines as the war reaches Tera plantation. Then there is Ashley who returning from war who is unable to figure out how to try and support his family or anyone else. When Ashley does try to stand up and take a job in New York, Scarlett and Melanie override his decision. Ashley even goes into business with Scarlett after she tells him too. With Ashley being less in power in this dynamic the film also correctly shows the ways that southern white women had expanded roles while the men were gone. Scarlett is taking care of Tara when Ashley and the rest of the men come back, and continues to take care of business when she marries Frank. | **Something that the film does get right is the way the men behave after the war**. You first have her father whose mental stability declines as the war reaches Tera plantation. Then there is Ashley who returning from war who is unable to figure out how to try and support his family or anyone else. When Ashley does try to stand up and take a job in New York, Scarlett and Melanie override his decision. Ashley even goes into business with Scarlett after she tells him too. With Ashley being less in power in this dynamic the film also correctly shows the ways that southern white women had expanded roles while the men were gone. Scarlett is taking care of Tara when Ashley and the rest of the men come back, and continues to take care of business when she marries Frank. | ||
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| I felt the film accurately portrayed the attitudes of most wealthy Southerners at the time, who could not conceive of losing their way of life to a civil war. The film also clearly (if not frequently) stated that the plantation owners wanted to keep their slaves at all costs and all of the luxuries they lived with as a result of plantation slavery. The film also did not shy away from showing what would have been pretty graphic depictions of death and violence. In one scene, when Scarlett shoots the raiding Union deserter, the filmmakers chose to show blood spattering his face, and (although the purpose was to stir sympathy for the Confederates) there were a few scenes showing tattered and bloody bodies, as well as explosions and fires that accompanied warfare. | I felt the film accurately portrayed the attitudes of most wealthy Southerners at the time, who could not conceive of losing their way of life to a civil war. The film also clearly (if not frequently) stated that the plantation owners wanted to keep their slaves at all costs and all of the luxuries they lived with as a result of plantation slavery. The film also did not shy away from showing what would have been pretty graphic depictions of death and violence. In one scene, when Scarlett shoots the raiding Union deserter, the filmmakers chose to show blood spattering his face, and (although the purpose was to stir sympathy for the Confederates) there were a few scenes showing tattered and bloody bodies, as well as explosions and fires that accompanied warfare. | ||
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| + | I was shocked to learn in class that 1/2 of soldiers died from disease, especially nosocomial infections. Scarlett' | ||
| ====== 3 Questions about interpretation ====== | ====== 3 Questions about interpretation ====== | ||
| - | Rhett raping Scarlett in the latter half of the movie always bothered me. The act itself was bad obviously, but each time I watch the movie, I still find it completely out of character for Rhett. | + | Rhett raping Scarlett in the latter half of the movie always bothered me. The act itself was bad obviously, but each time I watch the movie, I still find it completely out of character for Rhett. |
| - | My question goes a lot with what people have already discussed, but I think it’s important to address. Why did the slaves, especially Mammy, go on without questioning authority? What do you think were their thoughts on the war and its aftermath? And most importantly, | + | My question goes a lot with what people have already discussed, but I think it’s important to address.** Why did the slaves, especially Mammy, go on without questioning authority?**** What do you think were their thoughts on the war and its aftermath? And most importantly, |
| - | If the film, Gone with the Wind, bears any resemblance to author, Margaret Mitchell’s telling, one could seriously contemplate how bitterness in the South had been projected towards post-Civil War generations, | + | If the film, Gone with the Wind, bears any resemblance to author, Margaret Mitchell’s telling, one could seriously contemplate how bitterness in the South had been projected towards post-Civil War generations, |
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| - | I’m going to be completely honest, why did they depict the north as this horrible place? I get it the north and the south did not like each other, but was this movie an accurate interpretation of it? I just want to know because from what I was taught, it was never that hostile. | + | **I’m going to be completely honest, why did they depict the north as this horrible place? I get it the north and the south did not like each other, but was this movie an accurate interpretation of it?** I just want to know because from what I was taught, it was never that hostile. |
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| + | I watched //Gone With the Wind// with the understanding that the film is rooted in nostalgia for the Old South. That being said, as I watched the film I questioned Hollywood' | ||
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| + | The first thing that comes to mind is why did they kill off both of the children? What was the significance of killing the little girl and then making Scarlett miscarry? I can see the idea that maybe Bonnie connected Scarlett and Rhett more than anything else ever did. I read that the man that played Rhett threatened to quit over the miscarriage scene (or at least the part where he cries). Why did they take so long to kill off Mr. O’Hara? **Why did they make him go mad instead of just killing him off in the war or something? Lastly, why was the ending left open for interpretation? | ||
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| + | The character of Scarlett O’Hara seems somewhat anachronistic in terms of personality. While I cannot be sure how the typical woman would have negotiated patrons in a sawmill or handling intergroup politics, it seems somewhat odd just how much Scarlett was scheming and manipulating people to basically do exactly what she wanted of them? Again, I am not sure if this was part of some kind of **mind games that were part of the Southern Belle debutante training curriculum, but much of popular culture and history paints this picture of upper class Southern women being very demure and hands off in their day to day lives.** | ||
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| + | So Scarlett had a rough go of it when it came to husbands.**What were the rules for widows of this time? And is there a social limit to how many times a lady could get remarried? | ||
| ====== 4 Movie as a Primary Source about the time in which it was made ====== | ====== 4 Movie as a Primary Source about the time in which it was made ====== | ||
| - | I think showing that some of the slaves did not leave after the Civil War reflects the time period in which the film was made because I think a lot of people in the 1930’s believed or wanted to believe that slaves were not treated horribly. If this film was made today, slaves would be shown in the actual terrible conditions that they lived in. However, the filmmakers during the time period made a choice to show slaves as content in their positions and I think it has to do with some of the research that southern historians published before the film was made- essentially rewriting history to make it seem that slavery was not a problem when indeed it was. I think in more modern times there are more historians that accurately portray the way slaves were treated and how they felt, thus if the film was made today, there would have a more accurate portrayal of what slaves went through, regardless of what was published in the book. --- // | + | **I think showing that some of the slaves did not leave after the Civil War reflects the time period in which the film was made because I think a lot of people in the 1930’s believed or wanted to believe that slaves were not treated horribly.** **If this film was made today, slaves would be shown in the actual terrible conditions that they lived in. However, the filmmakers during the time period made a choice to show slaves as content in their positions and I think it has to do with some of the research that southern historians published before the film was made- essentially rewriting history to make it seem that slavery was not a problem when indeed it was. I think in more modern times there are more historians that accurately portray the way slaves were treated and how they felt, thus if the film was made today, there would have a more accurate portrayal of what slaves went through, regardless of what was published in the book.** --- // |
| - | In 1939, the United States had just been through a decade of the Great Depression. The Great Depression altered gender roles much in the way that the Civil War did. Women had greater control over the household as men were short on jobs and money. Women were responsible to keep the household going, figure out how to cut corners, and keep the morale of their worn-down men up, while still not emasculating their husbands. To see a woman declare, “With God as my witness, I’ll never go hungry again!” would have been an inspiration to people. At the same time, the movie makes clear that, whiel women should take charge and help when needed for “the cause,” they should step back and allow their men to take charge again when the time comes. | + | **In 1939, the United States had just been through a decade of the Great Depression. The Great Depression altered gender roles much in the way that the Civil War did. Women had greater control over the household as men were short on jobs and money. Women were responsible to keep the household going, figure out how to cut corners, and keep the morale of their worn-down men up, while still not emasculating their husbands.** To see a woman declare, “With God as my witness, I’ll never go hungry again!” would have been an inspiration to people. At the same time, the movie makes clear that, whiel women should take charge and help when needed for “the cause,” they should step back and allow their men to take charge again when the time comes. |
| While Scarlett is a strong character, her strength and dismissal of marriage is her tragic flaw, as she brings a trail of death wherever she goes (her first husband, her second husband, her unborn baby, her daughter (and Melanie, but in a different way)). She is left alone at the end of the movie, because, by the time she realizes that she needs her husband, he is gone. (There is a trail of hope left as she clings to Tara, but I would argue that that theme has much more to do with the triumphant South than the triumphant Southern woman.) | While Scarlett is a strong character, her strength and dismissal of marriage is her tragic flaw, as she brings a trail of death wherever she goes (her first husband, her second husband, her unborn baby, her daughter (and Melanie, but in a different way)). She is left alone at the end of the movie, because, by the time she realizes that she needs her husband, he is gone. (There is a trail of hope left as she clings to Tara, but I would argue that that theme has much more to do with the triumphant South than the triumphant Southern woman.) | ||
| - | So, although there is strength and positive—even feminist-- traits to be found in Scarlet’s character, especially considering it is a product of the 1930s, ultimately the message is against her character if viewers take the whole movie into account. --Julia Peterson | + | **So, although there is strength and positive—even feminist-- traits to be found in Scarlet’s character, especially considering it is a product of the 1930s, ultimately the message is against her character if viewers take the whole movie into account.** --Julia Peterson |
| - | The 1930s were a golden age for the film industry, as many people used movies as a form of escapism from the effects of the Great Depression. Even though Gone with The Wind was released towards the end of the Depression, the whole " | + | **The 1930s were a golden age for the film industry, as many people used movies as a form of escapism from the effects of the Great Depression.** Even though Gone with The Wind was released towards the end of the Depression, the whole " |
| - | I believe this movie is perhaps the pinnacle of a product of its time. For one, the movie hugely shows the difference and separation of gender roles particularly in the South. Scarlett O'Hara represents the " | + | **I believe this movie is perhaps the pinnacle of a product of its time. For one, the movie hugely shows the difference and separation of gender roles particularly in the South. Scarlett O'Hara represents the " |
| - | I think that it is important to look at this film through the time period it was made. During the Great Depression, the film industry thrived because people wanted to escape their financial worries by watching movies. This film depicts a well of Southern woman living in a big home and slaves working for her. Not that people during the depression wished they had slaves, but they probably wished that they were that affluent. This film made viewers think of the “good old days” in the romanticized South. | + | I think that it is important to look at this film through the time period it was made. During the Great Depression, the film industry thrived because people wanted to escape their financial worries by watching movies. This film depicts a well of Southern woman living in a big home and slaves working for her. Not that people during the depression wished they had slaves, but they probably wished that they were that affluent. |
| - | In many ways, Gone With The Wind is a primary source of its time. In other ways, it’s a little ahead of its time. Usually in films from this era, even when the protagonist is female, it is always the man, who is charming, comes in and saves the girl. The film turns this on its head, and has the man, though still charming, not save the girl, and leaves him as an antagonist. In fact, the film has most if its male figures either weak, stupid, or just plain mean. --- // | + | In many ways, Gone With The Wind is a primary source of its time. In other ways, it’s a little ahead of its time. **Usually in films from this era, even when the protagonist is female, it is always the man, who is charming, comes in and saves the girl. The film turns this on its head, and has the man, though still charming, not save the girl, and leaves him as an antagonist. In fact, the film has most if its male figures either weak, stupid, or just plain mean.** --- // |
| - | Though Gone with the Wind was made 75 years after the Civil War ended, the film was still very much a product of its time in regards to Southerners perception seceding from the union. Since the film’s release in 1939, an additional 75 years has passed and the older it gets, the more racist and sexist it might appear to younger generations. Of course at the time (1939) organizations like the Klu Klux Klan were not only prevalent, but socially accepted in many regions. This film predates the Civil Rights Movement and a number of feminist movements that clearly don’t apply within the context of this film, seen throughout as gender roles, a degree of spousal abuse, young women wedding much older men, the liberal use of the word “negro”, | + | Though Gone with the Wind was made 75 years after the Civil War ended, the film was still very much a product of its time in regards to Southerners perception seceding from the union. |
| - | Gone With the Wind, is a great primary source looking into the time the movie was made, 1939. As stated above the movie was made near ending the Great Depression. It almost seems as though this movie acted as a metaphor to the lives of the 'Old South' to that of the American Great Depression. I could only imagine the importance this movie had in connecting to people of the 1930's and 40's. Also the depiction of the racial relationships reflect highly of the time, and segregation at the time. The movie took the old south and rewrote history to portray a greater memory that was the " | + | Gone With the Wind, is a great primary source looking into the time the movie was made, 1939. As stated above the movie was made near ending the Great Depression. It almost seems as though this movie acted as a metaphor to the lives of the 'Old South' to that of the American Great Depression. I could only imagine the importance this movie had in connecting to people of the 1930's and 40' |
| - | The film definitely reflected the major social attitudes of Americans in the late 1930s. At the tail end of the Depression, as other people have said, women took a more independent role in the workplace and in supporting the American economy, which was in some ways reflected by Scarlett' | + | The film definitely reflected the major social attitudes of Americans in the late 1930s. |
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| + | Personally, I believe that the film would serve a rather accurate source for the time period and how people may have interpreted the Civil War and Reconstruction considering there may have been people that actually lived during the Reconstruction with family having fought during the war. As such, **some people may have romanticised the era in order to gloss over losses such as the end of slavery, the Confederacy losing the war, or the destabilizing of the Southern economy due to the emancipation of aforementioned slaves.** Additionally, | ||
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| ====== 5 Comparing the reading to the movie ====== | ====== 5 Comparing the reading to the movie ====== | ||
| The way I read the " | The way I read the " | ||
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| So, this isn't really a question, just facts that I'd like to pass on because it does have a lot to do with the time in which the movie was made. A piece of history the film has is Hattie McDaniel (Mammy) being the first African American to be nominated for and awarded the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress. | So, this isn't really a question, just facts that I'd like to pass on because it does have a lot to do with the time in which the movie was made. A piece of history the film has is Hattie McDaniel (Mammy) being the first African American to be nominated for and awarded the Oscar for Best Supporting Actress. | ||
| - | If I had to give this movie one compliment I think it would be how it managed to portray southern pride from the beginning to the end of the war. Men at the beginning were jumping around talking about how they couldn’t wait to beat the Yankees if war ever came. Once it struck, they sprinted to sign up and register. Once it was over, they refused to do business with them, hated the carpetbaggers, | + | **If I had to give this movie one compliment I think it would be how it managed to portray southern pride from the beginning to the end of the war.** Men at the beginning were jumping around talking about how they couldn’t wait to beat the Yankees if war ever came. Once it struck, they sprinted to sign up and register. Once it was over, they refused to do business with them, hated the carpetbaggers, |
| - | //Gone With the Wind// remains perhaps as the most watched and celebrated historical film nearly eighty years after the release date. For many Americans, the history embedded in the film is the closest they will get to touch a historical books or primary source accounts. While// Gone With The Wind// does have a sprinkling of historical accuracy, the vast majority of the film highlights the falsification of South history. The film celebrates the “Old South” and “The Cause.” However, the celebration of a South that wasn’t there is damaging. For one, the film veils the horrors of slavery and perpetuates black stereotypes through the characters of Big Sam, Prissy, and Mammy. The film highlights the war’s damage to the South, particularly in Atlanta, but largely exaggerates and further demonizes the Union. “The Yankees are coming” is particularly quotable and further shows the demonization towards the Union soldiers. By glamorizing the South and painting slavery as “not that bad” with a benevolent planter further shows a South that wasn’t there. The film completely takes away the struggles and horrific practice of slavery while painting African Americans as passive and even agreeable to slavery. This falsification of the South ignores black voices in order to further legitimize white supremacy which the “Old South” capitalized and profited off of. (PS-Gone With the Wind is one of my favorite movies because of the dresses and Scarlett' | + | //Gone With the Wind// remains perhaps as the most watched and celebrated historical film nearly eighty years after the release date. For many Americans, the history embedded in the film is the closest they will get to touch a historical books or primary source accounts. While// Gone With The Wind// does have a sprinkling of historical accuracy, the vast majority of the film highlights the falsification of South history. The film celebrates the “Old South” and “The Cause.”** However, the celebration of a South that wasn’t there is damaging.** For one, the film veils the horrors of slavery and perpetuates black stereotypes through the characters of Big Sam, Prissy, and Mammy. The film highlights the war’s damage to the South, particularly in Atlanta, but largely exaggerates and further demonizes the Union. “The Yankees are coming” is particularly quotable and further shows the demonization towards the Union soldiers. By glamorizing the South and painting slavery as “not that bad” with a benevolent planter further shows a South that wasn’t there. |
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| - | This ‘so what’ question really comes into play, at least for me, because I have never seen the movie before. When we talked about it in class how it is one of the most watched movies and the how many people view the south I felt completely lost. As I was watching it I would get offended by the whole Yankee scenes when the southerners would get pissed because that is honestly not how I viewed the Yankees. If anything my views were completely flipped from what the movie portrayed. I also understand that the Civil War is still viewed in multiple ways and this is just one of the many interpretations of it. So what if this movie portrays the south as if it will rise again? So what if the Yankees are only portrayed as thieves and murders? Who cares that if any of this is accurate? It speaks to southern pride right? It does, but it also speaks of the north in a negative way as if emancipating slaves and keeping the union together was a horrible thing. I feel like it speaks highly of how ALL Americans need to reevaluate how we view this time period especially the Civil War because obviously something is wrong if people have split views about it. --- // | + | This ‘so what’ question really comes into play, at least for me, because I have never seen the movie before. When we talked about it in class how it is one of the most watched movies and the how many people view the south I felt completely lost. As I was watching it I would get offended by the whole Yankee scenes when the southerners would get pissed because that is honestly not how I viewed the Yankees. If anything my views were completely flipped from what the movie portrayed. I also understand that the Civil War is still viewed in multiple ways and this is just one of the many interpretations of it. So what if this movie portrays the south as if it will rise again? So what if the Yankees are only portrayed as thieves and murders? Who cares that if any of this is accurate? It speaks to southern pride right? It does, but it also speaks of the north in a negative way as if emancipating slaves and keeping the union together was a horrible thing. |
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| + | Overall, I think this shows the ideology of the South, especially during the barbeque in the beginning of the movie. The feelings of Southern men towards the Northerners was quite clear and accurate of the Antebellum South. The hardship a Southern woman faced when the men were all away was also portrayed well.** I’m not sure Scarlett’s relationships, | ||
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| + | Watching Gone With the Wind for the first time, I was able to better understand the South’s views of the war and its results, and how Hollywood held onto this view into the 20th century. The film is obviously historically inaccurate and shows a world that really did not factually exist. The way that white slave owners lived before the war was supported by brutality and force. Some characters even threaten to whip or beat the slaves, but we do not actually see any of it like we did in Amistad. Emancipation of the slaves also did not really have an important role in the film. We did see the suffering that Southerners lived through, or that later Southerns thought they went through, as a result of the war. Even about 70 years after the war ended, at least part of the white moviegoing public of the 1930s bought this view of the war, which shows us how unsurprising it is that people are still divided over the history of the Civil War and its meaning. | ||
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329/question/329--week_6_questions_comments.1475728813.txt.gz · Last modified: 2016/10/06 04:40 by mlindse2