329:question:329--week_4_questions_comments-2024
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| 329:question:329--week_4_questions_comments-2024 [2024/09/19 08:52] – [How does the film’s overall interpretation(s) deviate from scholarly historical sources?] vveriak | 329:question:329--week_4_questions_comments-2024 [2024/09/24 13:55] (current) – 199.111.65.11 | ||
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| - | What the movie was able to depict right about history is how the British and Americans had a idealistic view of " | + | **What the movie was able to depict right about history is how the British and Americans had a idealistic view of " |
| - | This film did portray warfare with a nod to some true history in that it highlighted the value that guerrilla tactics held during the war for the Patriots. Despite the fact that Benjamin is shown as a one-man-army, | + | This film did portray warfare with a nod to some true history in that it** highlighted the value that guerrilla tactics held during the war for the Patriots.** Despite the fact that Benjamin is shown as a one-man-army, |
| - | The Patriot does have some historical accuracy; but I would estimate that half of them are in the film's " | + | **The Patriot does have some historical accuracy; but I would estimate that half of them are in the film's " |
| - | I do think this film is accurate in some ways. I think, at least, it gets the essence of what the Revolution was. It wasn’t 100% accurate to how events would have played out, but the drama and intrigue needed for plot purposes is most likely the reason as to why. There were real characters and events that were depicted in the movie as well. There was, in fact, a General Cornwallis, and Tavington, while not a real person, was based off of a British officer named Banastre Tarleton. Tarleton was fairly cruel during the war and often made decisions that were vengeful and brutal. The scene in which he kills the men injured at the Martin residence is loosely based on how he handled surrendered continental forces at the Battle of Waxhaws. I would say he’s depicted fairly well to how he acted in real life. There was a surrender at Yorktown which the movie portrays. There was also a General Gates, but the positions and whereabouts of the General don’t line up with the actual timeline of events. - Emma Galvin | + | I do think this film is accurate in some ways. **I think, at least, it gets the essence of what the Revolution was.** It wasn’t 100% accurate to how events would have played out, but the drama and intrigue needed for plot purposes is most likely the reason as to why. There were real characters and events that were depicted in the movie as well.** There was, in fact, a General Cornwallis, and Tavington, while not a real person, was based off of a British officer named Banastre Tarleton.** Tarleton was fairly cruel during the war and often made decisions that were vengeful and brutal. The scene in which he kills the men injured at the Martin residence is loosely based on how he handled surrendered continental forces at the Battle of Waxhaws. I would say he’s depicted fairly well to how he acted in real life. There was a surrender at Yorktown which the movie portrays. There was also a General Gates, but the positions and whereabouts of the General don’t line up with the actual timeline of events. - Emma Galvin |
| - | Compared to the previous films we watched, I feel that the Patriot is leagues better in attempting to be more accurate. There were references to actual historical events (Lord Dunmore' | + | **Compared to the previous films we watched, I feel that the Patriot is leagues better in attempting to be more accurate. There were references to actual historical events (Lord Dunmore' |
| I believe the movie did have some details about the American Revolution that were true. I observed at the beginning of the film how a soldier for the British army came to Benjamin’s farm and told the African-American farm hands they were freed because they would be fighting for the crown. When one of the workers stated they were already freed and they had no reason to fight for the British, the soldier insinuated he had no choice. The soldier was enforcing the Lord Dunmore proclamation, | I believe the movie did have some details about the American Revolution that were true. I observed at the beginning of the film how a soldier for the British army came to Benjamin’s farm and told the African-American farm hands they were freed because they would be fighting for the crown. When one of the workers stated they were already freed and they had no reason to fight for the British, the soldier insinuated he had no choice. The soldier was enforcing the Lord Dunmore proclamation, | ||
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| The Patriot is somewhat historically accurate because it is loosely based on real historical figures and events. The battle sequences are the most factual aspects of The Patriot. The film portrays two key battles, the Battle of Camden and the Battle of Cowpens. The movie correctly depicts battle strategies at the time, showing American and British forces marching across the field, fully exposed in regimented columns while firing their rifles. The movie also does a good job of depicting the societal effects of the French and Indian War. Disputes between the loyalists and the patriots regarding British policies relating to frontier expansion and the War's expenses led to colonial discontent, ultimately causing the American Revolution. Due to The Patriot’s association as an action film, it is clear that the creators focused more attention on the depiction of battle and bloodshed. - Sam B | The Patriot is somewhat historically accurate because it is loosely based on real historical figures and events. The battle sequences are the most factual aspects of The Patriot. The film portrays two key battles, the Battle of Camden and the Battle of Cowpens. The movie correctly depicts battle strategies at the time, showing American and British forces marching across the field, fully exposed in regimented columns while firing their rifles. The movie also does a good job of depicting the societal effects of the French and Indian War. Disputes between the loyalists and the patriots regarding British policies relating to frontier expansion and the War's expenses led to colonial discontent, ultimately causing the American Revolution. Due to The Patriot’s association as an action film, it is clear that the creators focused more attention on the depiction of battle and bloodshed. - Sam B | ||
| - | I thought this movie did miles better than the first two that we watched and it was clear that the filmmakers didn’t want this movie to just be a romance or a “hollywood extravaganza.” Although I will say those random slo-mo shots every now and then got me. I really liked how much the characters referenced the French and Indian War as a reason for their anger towards the monarchy rather than just blaming it on “taxes” or singling out the Stamp Act as many other portrayals of the Revolution have. Something else I thought this film did extremely well (which other depictions seem to miss a lot) was the representation of the “neutral.” Although Benjamin doesn’t exactly stay neutral for long, he takes a somewhat neutral stance at the beginning – not because he didn’t believe they should be free but because he didn’t think a war was necessary. Other reasons for being neutral that the film portrayed were pacifism, odds of beating the British, and fear. -- Emma F. | + | **I thought this movie did miles better than the first two that we watched and it was clear that the filmmakers didn’t want this movie to just be a romance or a “hollywood extravaganza.” Although I will say those random slo-mo shots every now and then got me.** I really liked how much **the characters referenced the French and Indian War as a reason for their anger towards the monarchy rather than just blaming it on “taxes” or singling out the Stamp Act as many other portrayals of the Revolution have**. **Something else I thought this film did extremely well (which other depictions seem to miss a lot) was the representation of the “neutral.”** Although Benjamin doesn’t exactly stay neutral for long, he takes a somewhat neutral stance at the beginning – not because he didn’t believe they should be free but because he didn’t think a war was necessary. Other reasons for being neutral that the film portrayed were pacifism, odds of beating the British, and fear. -- Emma F. |
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| + | The Patriot does get some stuff right. **One thing it gets right, which we see from the very beginning of the movie, is that British troops destroyed everything in their path**. We see this multiple times in the movie because almost every time British troops would “visit” someone’s property they would kill the people’s their and burn all buildings down. **Another thing this film gets right is that one of the Colonials biggest strengths was knowing the land.** This is even brought front and center when Benjamin tells Gabriel that he raised him to know the quickest paths right before they separated to recruit men. The film also is right in its portrayal of how soldiers would recycle anything they could. This is **most prominent in the movie when we see Benjamin melt down all of Thomas’s toy soldiers to use as bullets**. -Maddy W | ||
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| + | The movie is set during the American Revolution and does accurately portraying the general conflict between American colonists and British forces in the late 18th century. As well as show the use of guerrilla tactics by American militia forces which were crucial in many battles during the war and the film does capture the brutality of the conflict, including the impact on civilians and the burning of homes. However, the film takes liberties with historical accuracy especially with its characters and specific events. For example, the protagonist Benjamin Martin is fictional and certain events, like the burning of a church filled with townspeople probably were not documented occurrences in the American Revolution. - jedidia | ||
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| + | This movie gets the way that they fought in lines with muskets correct and firing until one side fell and was defeated and I found it interesting to see it play out in a live action setting rather than reading about it like I usually do. - Kazu | ||
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| - | The Patriot does get some stuff right. One thing it gets right, which we see from the very beginning of the movie, is that British troops destroyed everything in their path. We see this multiple times in the movie because almost every time British troops would “visit” someone’s property they would kill the people’s their and burn all buildings down. Another thing this film gets right is that one of the Colonials biggest strengths was knowing the land. This is even brought front and center when Benjamin tells Gabriel that he raised him to know the quickest paths right before they separated to recruit men. The film also is right in its portrayal of how soldiers would recycle anything they could. This is most prominent in the movie when we see Benjamin melt down all of Thomas’s toy soldiers to use as bullets. -Maddy W | ||
| ====== Problems with historical accuracy? Errors in fact? ====== | ====== Problems with historical accuracy? Errors in fact? ====== | ||
| This movie does a very bad job at depicting the British army as they were during the Revolutionary war. The movie makes them seem like high brow elitists who looked down on the colonists with such a high degree of disdain. Although there were certainly some British military officers that acted like this, it is played up for the movie with the officers effectively being caricatures. The main British general is so blatantly evil and has no problem committing atrocities on the colonists, most of which didn’t happen in the first place, to make an overly clear antagonistic force. - Ewan H | This movie does a very bad job at depicting the British army as they were during the Revolutionary war. The movie makes them seem like high brow elitists who looked down on the colonists with such a high degree of disdain. Although there were certainly some British military officers that acted like this, it is played up for the movie with the officers effectively being caricatures. The main British general is so blatantly evil and has no problem committing atrocities on the colonists, most of which didn’t happen in the first place, to make an overly clear antagonistic force. - Ewan H | ||
| - | Despite the movie showing the patriotism of the American colonist in their fight against their British adversaries, | + | Despite the movie showing the patriotism of the American colonist in their fight against their British adversaries, |
| - | The Patriot is not overly accurate as many of its characters and events were composites of real characters and events designed to serve the fictional narrative. For example, the film's main character, Benjamin Martin, is a composite of several real-life figures, including Francis Marion, Thomas Sumter, and Andrew Pickens. The scene with the burning of the church is also inaccurate, as there were no reports of churches being burnt down during the Revolution. In addition, the film does poorly handling notions regarding slavery. The film depicts slavery in South Carolina as practically nonexistent, | + | The Patriot is not overly accurate as many of its characters and events were composites of real characters and events designed to serve the fictional narrative. For example, the film's main character, Benjamin Martin, is a composite of several real-life figures, including Francis Marion, Thomas Sumter, and Andrew Pickens. |
| - | An inaccuracy I observed is the stance that a lot of historical movies have, which is that America can do no wrong. I do not believe they accurately portrayed slavery. Most slaves weren’t happily working in America, nor were they treated with human decency. To me, it seems like the film didn’t want to taint the beautiful American image they were aiming for. -Leah B | + | **An inaccuracy I observed is the stance that a lot of historical movies have, which is that America can do no wrong.** I do not believe they accurately portrayed slavery. Most slaves weren’t happily working in America, nor were they treated with human decency. To me, it seems like the film didn’t want to taint the beautiful American image they were aiming for. -Leah B |
| - | The film does create some discussion on the tension between different factions of colonists and the political conversations and debates that people were having about the war, particularly earlier in the film. This is a fairly interesting aspect of the conflict for the film to explore. However, the film does play up how horrible the British forces were and severely downplays the realities of slavery in the South of America at this time. This makes the central characters more sympathetic but paints a simpler and more digestible version of this history. - Rickie | + | T**he film does create some discussion on the tension between different factions of colonists and the political conversations and debates that people were having about the war, particularly earlier in the film. This is a fairly interesting aspect of the conflict for the film to explore. However, the film does play up how horrible the British forces were and severely downplays the realities of slavery in the South of America at this time. This makes the central characters more sympathetic but paints a simpler and more digestible version of this history**. - Rickie |
| - | This film gets a whole lot wrong about the time period and the attitudes and lives of people living then. First of all, it introduces the workers of Benjamin' | + | This film gets a whole lot wrong about the time period and the attitudes and lives of people living then. **First of all, it introduces the workers of Benjamin' |
| I feel as the role of slavery in the film was ignored and showed in an inaccurate way. Many Southern landowners, even those who were fighting for independence, | I feel as the role of slavery in the film was ignored and showed in an inaccurate way. Many Southern landowners, even those who were fighting for independence, | ||
| - | As discussed in class, Benjamin Martin was not an actual figure in the war, instead he was a collection of personalities from militia leaders. Apparently Martin’s character was mostly founded from Francis Marion, also known as “swamp fox.” The movie got a couple things wrong about some of these figures they modeled Martin off of. One of the biggest being how Benjamin Martin did’t have slaves, instead he had freed black men/women who seemed to be apart of his family. In reality, Marion had a terrible reputation for how he treated slaves. As for the antagonist in this film, the makers tried to intensify how cruel Tavington was. While he was known to not take prisoners, they wanted to demonize him as much as possible. For example, the scene where he burned down the church with all the innocent people locked in didn’t actually happen. This shows to be an example of the makers trying to make the British super dark and twisted, while making the Americans resilient heroes. - Matt S. | + | As discussed in class, Benjamin Martin was not an actual figure in the war, instead he was a collection of personalities from militia leaders. Apparently Martin’s character was mostly founded from Francis Marion, also known as “swamp fox.” The movie got a couple things wrong about some of these figures they modeled Martin off of. One of the biggest being how Benjamin Martin did’t have slaves, instead he had freed black men/women who seemed to be apart of his family. In reality, Marion had a terrible reputation for how he treated slaves. |
| - | The Patriot’s historical inaccuracies seem to largely stem from its desire to push the founding myth that surrounds the American Revolutionary War. Time and time again, the history of those involved on the side of the Patriot forces has been whitewashed, | + | **The Patriot’s historical inaccuracies seem to largely stem from its desire to push the founding myth that surrounds the American Revolutionary War. Time and time again, the history of those involved on the side of the Patriot forces has been whitewashed, |
| While this film correctly depicts many aspects of the Revolutionary war, it exaggerates certain elements. The character of Benjamin Martin was very much so dramaticized, | While this film correctly depicts many aspects of the Revolutionary war, it exaggerates certain elements. The character of Benjamin Martin was very much so dramaticized, | ||
| - | A large issue I saw in this film was how the film dealt with the issue of race/ | + | **A large issue I saw in this film was how the film dealt with the issue of race/ |
| There were a few historical inaccuracies in this film. One being that even though this film takes place in the south, most of the people of color we see in the movie are free not slaves. While there were free black people in the south at that time it was not as common as the movie makes it out to be. Another inaccuracy in The Patriot is that Native Americans were never present in the film. While it is true that the further along into the war, the less Native Americans were involved this film only mentions Native Americans in context to the seven years war. When in reality, many were allied with the British at the start of the war and typically used as scouts. | There were a few historical inaccuracies in this film. One being that even though this film takes place in the south, most of the people of color we see in the movie are free not slaves. While there were free black people in the south at that time it was not as common as the movie makes it out to be. Another inaccuracy in The Patriot is that Native Americans were never present in the film. While it is true that the further along into the war, the less Native Americans were involved this film only mentions Native Americans in context to the seven years war. When in reality, many were allied with the British at the start of the war and typically used as scouts. | ||
| - | Besides the glossing over of the issue of slavery, a thing that was historically inaccurate that I believe was mostly put in there for shock value was the scene with the British burning down the church with civilians still inside. While there is evidence the British occasionally burned down churches during the Revolutionary War, there is very little evidence that supports the notion that any civilians were inside when that happened. The scene itself is dramatic and makes audiences hate the British even more due to how villainized and one dimensional they' | + | Besides the glossing over of the issue of slavery, a thing that was historically inaccurate that I believe was mostly put in there for shock value was the scene with the British burning down the church with civilians still inside. While there is evidence the British occasionally burned down churches during the Revolutionary War, there is very little evidence that supports the notion that any civilians were inside when that happened. |
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| + | There were some errors in this film like the film simplifies the motivations and roles of various groups. the British forces are showed villainous and the American side as purely heroic. When it was more complicated than that. The film also inaccurately portrayals the realities of slavery in the American South. It portrays enslaved people on Martin' | ||
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| + | The inaccuracies shown when it comes to slavery are that the Americans are shown to be generally more kind to their slaves and the British are shown to be more comically evil in all other ways. I understand why they made this decision and I get that they have to make an entertaining movie but I am sure that it was not this black and white and that both sides committed both good and bad things during this conflict. -Kazu | ||
| ====== How does the film’s overall interpretation(s) deviate from scholarly historical sources? ====== | ====== How does the film’s overall interpretation(s) deviate from scholarly historical sources? ====== | ||
| - | This film’s interpretation of the American Revolution deviates from other sources by feeling as though it was written by the most American Americans to ever be American. The depictions of the British are so cartoonishly evil, and the depictions of the Patriot movement are flawed as well. There is hardly any depiction of loyalist colonists, or neutral colonists for that matter, even though those two groups made up a majority of the population. The British freeing of the “farm workers” (weren’t even referred to as slaves which is a whole other thing) was seen as sad and unjust but when the Patriots did a similar action in retaliation it was seen as noble and hopeful. The Patriot perspective is so intense that it’s hard to take the movie seriously in any way whatsoever. - Ewan H | + | **This film’s interpretation of the American Revolution deviates from other sources by feeling as though it was written by the most American Americans to ever be American.** The depictions of the British are so cartoonishly evil, and the depictions of the Patriot movement are flawed as well. **There is hardly any depiction of loyalist colonists, or neutral colonists for that matter, even though those two groups made up a majority of the population.** The British freeing of the “farm workers” (weren’t even referred to as slaves which is a whole other thing) was seen as sad and unjust but when the Patriots did a similar action in retaliation it was seen as noble and hopeful. The Patriot perspective is so intense that it’s hard to take the movie seriously in any way whatsoever. - Ewan H |
| - | Although this doesn’t have much to do with the actual Revolution much, I thought the biggest deviation the movie had was essentially the ‘removal’ of slavery. I mean, there were slaves depicted, but they were only referred to as “slaves” once or twice and only by the British. They sort of imply it by mentioning that Charlotte owns a plantation or when one colonist says “I’ll give you my negro,” but for the most part, they were called farmers or farm workers (or something similar). This almost paints the colonists as anti-slavery to a certain extent, which was definitely not true as they have been proven for very long now to be avid slave-holders. Especially since this movie takes place in the South. -- Emma F. | + | **Although this doesn’t have much to do with the actual Revolution much, I thought the biggest deviation the movie had was essentially the ‘removal’ of slavery.** I mean, there were slaves depicted, but they were only referred to as “slaves” once or twice and only by the British. They sort of imply it by mentioning that Charlotte owns a plantation or when one colonist says “I’ll give you my negro,” but for the most part, they were called farmers or farm workers (or something similar). This almost paints the colonists as anti-slavery to a certain extent, which was definitely not true as they have been proven for very long now to be avid slave-holders. Especially since this movie takes place in the South. -- Emma F. |
| - | The film skirts over the issue of slavery a lot. It is hardly mentioned or depicted it and the film even mentioned that George Washington had promised freedom to slaves that served in the Continental Army for a year when that was simply not true. This is all likely due to the fact that the movie wants to paint the patriots, or the "good guys", as being primarily more morally upstanding than the British, the "bad guys", who would burn down a church with innocent people inside.-Vumiliya V. | + | The film skirts over the issue of slavery a lot. It is hardly mentioned or depicted |
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| This film reveals a lot about the attitudes people held towards America at the time the film was made. There is an interesting contrast between the very prominent pro-America, | This film reveals a lot about the attitudes people held towards America at the time the film was made. There is an interesting contrast between the very prominent pro-America, | ||
| - | This movie worked as a good primary source in the battle scenes. Most of the time the two armies would line up against each other (which would make everyone go mad) and politely take turns shooting. They also add in a lot of the guerilla war tactics, showing the sometimes brutal sides of the violence. Lots of the rules of warfare were being challenged and broken. You could see how sometimes both sides would respect those rules, but in the heat of the battle, many on both would cross a line. Furthermore, | + | This movie worked as a good primary source in the battle scenes. Most of the time the two armies would line up against each other (which would make everyone go mad) and politely take turns shooting. They also add in a lot of the guerilla war tactics, showing the sometimes brutal sides of the violence. Lots of the rules of warfare were being challenged and broken. You could see how sometimes both sides would respect those rules, but in the heat of the battle, many on both would cross a line. Furthermore, |
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| + | **I think The Patriot is a good primary source about how filmmakers wanted to depict American history in 2000, along with audience expectations of how it should be portrayed.** One of the first things I noticed was the fact that Benjamin Martin and his family have African American workers and servants, not enslaved peoples. While possible that this could have occurred during this time, it seems fairly unlikely given the fact that it was South Carolina in the late 1700s and slavery wasn’t as big of a moral dilemma at this particular time. The movie depicted it this way because you want the heroes and good guys of the story to be as morally upstanding as possible, and if the Martins did own slaves, it would ruin the protagonist' | ||
| - | I think The Patriot is a good primary source | + | This movie can work as a primary source in a way that it simplifies |
| ====== The "So What" Question ====== | ====== The "So What" Question ====== | ||
| - | The American Revolutionary War makes up a significant portion of the founding mythos of the United States of America. The men who fought in that conflict, who penned documents pertaining to freedom, who argued for Independence, | + | **The American Revolutionary War makes up a significant portion of the founding mythos of the United States of America. The men who fought in that conflict, who penned documents pertaining to freedom, who argued for Independence, |
| In class, we have discussed the notion that history is decided by the winners and I think this film is an excellent example of that idea. This movie is aggressively American. While this isn’t shocking, it’s still incredibly problematic in how it essentially said “patriots are good” and “British are bad.” War is war and both sides are capable of extreme violence and bloodshed, even when it is the “good” side — in this case, Washington’s Army. Essentially, | In class, we have discussed the notion that history is decided by the winners and I think this film is an excellent example of that idea. This movie is aggressively American. While this isn’t shocking, it’s still incredibly problematic in how it essentially said “patriots are good” and “British are bad.” War is war and both sides are capable of extreme violence and bloodshed, even when it is the “good” side — in this case, Washington’s Army. Essentially, | ||
| - | The Patriot is a movie made for the American. It's meant to be something that reminds the viewer why America is a place of freedom and liberty, and that people like Benjamin are the people to be inspired by. At its core, the movie is about a man who not only wants to avenge his children, but create a world in which said children can live freely. This movie is important to the rhetoric that America is founded on the concept of freedom (even with the complete skirting around slavery in the movie), and that the Rev. war didn't just happen in places like Boston or Lexington, it was also in the woods of South Carolina. It's a historical movie that has action, romance, family, and in some places a little bit of humor, and it can be viewed as telling the American origin story. - Caty | + | The Patriot is a movie made for the American. |
| + | The Patriot is an important movie for in the way that it shows what happened in this pivotal time period in way the mast majority of people will like and enjoy. **It shows the brutal side of the war while telling a story that has some truth to it. This shows in the brutal war scenes and towns getting burned to the ground.** It does a good job of showing the effectiveness of guerilla warfare and the effect that it did on the war. It also showed how both sides where promising freedom to slaves. And how people were still opposed to fighting with slaves even while they were fighting with them. One of the best things this movie portrayed is the effect it had on families choosing who they helped and how they helped.-Ryan K | ||
329/question/329--week_4_questions_comments-2024.1726735931.txt.gz · Last modified: 2024/09/19 08:52 by vveriak