329:question:329--week_4_questions_comments-2018
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| 329:question:329--week_4_questions_comments-2018 [2018/09/25 09:34] – [The "So, what?" question] 72.205.3.184 | 329:question:329--week_4_questions_comments-2018 [2018/09/25 13:36] (current) – [The movie as a primary source of its time] lwiley | ||
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| - | The regular continental soldiers (both in the beginning in what is presumably Valley Forge, during Gabriel' | + | **The regular continental soldiers (both in the beginning in what is presumably Valley Forge, during Gabriel' |
| In the movie, the British are shown burning down a church with people inside of it. However, there is no evidence to show that this event occurred during the American Revolution. | In the movie, the British are shown burning down a church with people inside of it. However, there is no evidence to show that this event occurred during the American Revolution. | ||
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| In the movie there was a local militia for the Continental Army. The men would not follow the war, but rather locals would round up when the war came to them. This is in contrast to the British Army, which had trained soldiers that would travel from battle to battle. --Maryanna Stribling | In the movie there was a local militia for the Continental Army. The men would not follow the war, but rather locals would round up when the war came to them. This is in contrast to the British Army, which had trained soldiers that would travel from battle to battle. --Maryanna Stribling | ||
| - | The names of the battles that occurred in the film were based off of actual battles such as the Battle of Camden, the Battle of Cowpens, and the Battle of Yorktown. As well, Mel Gibson’s character Benjamin Martin was partially based off a Francis Marion, Indian fighter from the French and Indian War. Another name that the movie mentions is General Charles Cornwallis who is based on the real-life Lt. General Charles Earl Cornwallis. Just like movie portrays, General Cornwallis oversaw the British Army in the Carolinas in 1780-81. http:// | + | **The names of the battles that occurred in the film were based off of actual battles such as the Battle of Camden, the Battle of Cowpens, and the Battle of Yorktown. As well, Mel Gibson’s character Benjamin Martin was partially based off a Francis Marion, Indian fighter from the French and Indian War. Another name that the movie mentions is General Charles Cornwallis who is based on the real-life Lt. General Charles Earl Cornwallis. Just like movie portrays, General Cornwallis oversaw the British Army in the Carolinas in 1780-81. http:// |
| The film had accurate uniform and weaponry, as historians from the Smithsonian' | The film had accurate uniform and weaponry, as historians from the Smithsonian' | ||
| - | CW: Sexual Assault --Towards the beginning of the film, one of the younger sons at the dinner table casually mentions that the British Soldiers will "do lord knows what to you women." | + | CW: Sexual Assault --Towards the beginning of the film, one of the younger sons at the dinner table casually mentions that the British Soldiers will "do lord knows what to you women." |
| When Gabriel returns to his family' | When Gabriel returns to his family' | ||
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| https:// | https:// | ||
| - | Enslaved people like Occam often fought in the Revolutionary War for their masters who wanted to support the cause but were unable too. Some of the enslaved people fought for their own freedom that they believed would come with fighting for the continentals but only a few achieved their freedom. A majority still remained as property of their masters. Some enslaved men went to the British because they saw that their chance for freedom with them was better than with the continentals. But like shown when the British attacked Benjamin’s home, they did also take enslaved people as well. | + | **Enslaved people like Occam often fought in the Revolutionary War for their masters who wanted to support the cause but were unable too. Some of the enslaved people fought for their own freedom that they believed would come with fighting for the continentals but only a few achieved their freedom.** A majority still remained as property of their masters. Some enslaved men went to the British because they saw that their chance for freedom with them was better than with the continentals. But like shown when the British attacked Benjamin’s home, they did also take enslaved people as well. |
| Dobyns, Lloyd. " | Dobyns, Lloyd. " | ||
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| ====== The movie as a primary source of its time ====== | ====== The movie as a primary source of its time ====== | ||
| - | Mel Gibson, an Australian known for his performances as a victim of English cruelty and incompetence in Gallipoli and Braveheart, clearly has an ‘axe to grind’ against the British, (pun intended) and continues that quest in The Patriot. | + | **Mel Gibson, an Australian known for his performances as a victim of English cruelty and incompetence in Gallipoli and Braveheart, clearly has an ‘axe to grind’ against the British, (pun intended) and continues that quest in The Patriot. |
| + | ** | ||
| The Patriot was made after the World War II blockbuster Saving Private Ryan (1998), which shares the same head writer. The way the British are portrayed, specifically Tavington and the British seemed to be overly embellished to fit the good guy vs. bad guy formula that worked in Saving Private Ryan and other war movies of the late 90’s/ | The Patriot was made after the World War II blockbuster Saving Private Ryan (1998), which shares the same head writer. The way the British are portrayed, specifically Tavington and the British seemed to be overly embellished to fit the good guy vs. bad guy formula that worked in Saving Private Ryan and other war movies of the late 90’s/ | ||
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| This movie may have been centered around history and patriotism, but the focus on the fictional characters relationships with a dash of blood-filled action sequences said about as much to me as the history aspect did. There were multiple different plotlines about different relationships (Benjamin and his kids, Benjamin and Catherine, Gabriel and Anna) that speak for the genre as well as time period. -Erin Andrewlevich | This movie may have been centered around history and patriotism, but the focus on the fictional characters relationships with a dash of blood-filled action sequences said about as much to me as the history aspect did. There were multiple different plotlines about different relationships (Benjamin and his kids, Benjamin and Catherine, Gabriel and Anna) that speak for the genre as well as time period. -Erin Andrewlevich | ||
| - | The Patriot demonstrates a severe desire to simplify and idealize the motivations that created this country. Characters are motivated to join the war due to a desire to escape perceived unfair taxation or due to the British forces’ cruelty and aggressive tactics. The sides in the movie are clear cut with the British being the obviously wrong side of the war as they don’t take prisoners, kill innocent civilians, and are obsessed with superficial items such as clothing or valuing commanders above regular soldiers. In contrast, the militia becomes a morally superior group as they have only a momentary doubt in whether or not to kill surrendering forces, they are never shown to harm civilians, and hold each soldier as much as they would a commander. Even the worst aspects of the colonist militia soldiers is brushed off, as the racist soldiers are swayed by the commanders who aren’t racist and all issues are put aside by the climax. | + | The Patriot demonstrates a severe desire to simplify and idealize the motivations that created this country. Characters are motivated to join the war due to a desire to escape perceived unfair taxation or due to the British forces’ cruelty and aggressive tactics. |
| Does this movie romanticize war? This movie does show loss and gruesome death (cannon ball to the head and axes in the face) but it does fit this happy ending, things work out for the better genre, therefore romanticizing war. -Amiti Colson | Does this movie romanticize war? This movie does show loss and gruesome death (cannon ball to the head and axes in the face) but it does fit this happy ending, things work out for the better genre, therefore romanticizing war. -Amiti Colson | ||
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| One thing that struck me in particular about the readings in comparison to the film was the relative lack of the revolutionary forces’ brutality. While there certainly was both the immediate visceral violence that comes with warfare, the militia forces did not demonstrate much cruelty after their first instance of killing those who surrendered. The film did not show the militia forces dealing with loyalists except those who had first proven themselves to be the “bad guys” and thus were completely justifiable to kill. The film seemed more focused on hitting some broad strokes with any negative aspect of the militia, such as the involuntary enlistment of slaves, and simply brush away these actions after the characters are scolded for doing a bad thing and then let free. --Sky Horne | One thing that struck me in particular about the readings in comparison to the film was the relative lack of the revolutionary forces’ brutality. While there certainly was both the immediate visceral violence that comes with warfare, the militia forces did not demonstrate much cruelty after their first instance of killing those who surrendered. The film did not show the militia forces dealing with loyalists except those who had first proven themselves to be the “bad guys” and thus were completely justifiable to kill. The film seemed more focused on hitting some broad strokes with any negative aspect of the militia, such as the involuntary enlistment of slaves, and simply brush away these actions after the characters are scolded for doing a bad thing and then let free. --Sky Horne | ||
| ====== The "So, what?" question ====== | ====== The "So, what?" question ====== | ||
| - | This movie is practically a textbook definition of American patriotism (hell, Patriot is in the title of the movie). American war films like this carry a common motif of romanticizing our history as something of a morale-booster or a feel-good nostalgia trip. Of course there are plenty of issues with over romanticizing; | + | **This movie is practically a textbook definition of American patriotism (hell, Patriot is in the title of the movie). American war films like this carry a common motif of romanticizing our history as something of a morale-booster or a feel-good nostalgia trip. Of course there are plenty of issues with over romanticizing; |
| **I found an interview from Mel Gibson from after the movie was released where he said " "If one were to adhere to historical accuracy all the way, you'd probably have the most | **I found an interview from Mel Gibson from after the movie was released where he said " "If one were to adhere to historical accuracy all the way, you'd probably have the most | ||
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| When it comes to historical accuracy, this movie succeeds in certain ways that our other Mel Gibson movie failed. Pocahontas’ biggest weakness was the way it took actual historical figures and reworked their characters until they might as well be completely different people. The Patriot, on the other hand, has the good grace to change the names of historical figures when they change the stories. If this was a movie about Francis Marion fighting Banistre Tarleton, then it would be one thing, but instead the movie is about Benjamin Martin fighting William Tavington. This allows the movie some leeway, but the movie takes it too far, because although the characters are fictional the Revolutionary War was real, and everything that happens is just a little too Hollywood Clean. Yes, there are slaves in the movie, but the characters we are supposed to like don’t have them. Yes, there are atrocities committed by both sides, but the characters we are supposed to like feel real bad about it. It makes an attempt to say something real about war, but it gets bogged down in, well, patriotism. (Justin Curtis) | When it comes to historical accuracy, this movie succeeds in certain ways that our other Mel Gibson movie failed. Pocahontas’ biggest weakness was the way it took actual historical figures and reworked their characters until they might as well be completely different people. The Patriot, on the other hand, has the good grace to change the names of historical figures when they change the stories. If this was a movie about Francis Marion fighting Banistre Tarleton, then it would be one thing, but instead the movie is about Benjamin Martin fighting William Tavington. This allows the movie some leeway, but the movie takes it too far, because although the characters are fictional the Revolutionary War was real, and everything that happens is just a little too Hollywood Clean. Yes, there are slaves in the movie, but the characters we are supposed to like don’t have them. Yes, there are atrocities committed by both sides, but the characters we are supposed to like feel real bad about it. It makes an attempt to say something real about war, but it gets bogged down in, well, patriotism. (Justin Curtis) | ||
| - | The British treatment of the population poorly as they waged war which in the movie and in history caused many of the populace to switch from their neutral positions to support of the Patriots.(Notes) The church that was burned down was very period accurate as there were family boxes that would have been in most churches as well as a raised pulpit. https:// | + | **The British treatment of the population poorly as they waged war which in the movie and in history caused many of the populace to switch from their neutral positions to support of the Patriots.(Notes) The church that was burned down was very period accurate as there were family boxes that would have been in most churches as well as a raised pulpit.** https:// |
| Thank you Ellora for finding that clip of Gibson. If they wanted to make an accurate representation of those events with no added drama, or romance, then it would have been made into a documentary. I believe this movie accurately represents the emotions and situations people had to go through during the war. - Johana Colchado | Thank you Ellora for finding that clip of Gibson. If they wanted to make an accurate representation of those events with no added drama, or romance, then it would have been made into a documentary. I believe this movie accurately represents the emotions and situations people had to go through during the war. - Johana Colchado | ||
329/question/329--week_4_questions_comments-2018.1537868053.txt.gz · Last modified: 2018/09/25 09:34 by 72.205.3.184