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329:question:329--week_2_questions_comments-2022 [2022/09/01 00:27] – jones_margaret329:question:329--week_2_questions_comments-2022 [2024/09/05 01:30] (current) – [How does this movie work as a secondary source? What does the movie get right about history?] 104.28.77.147
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 ====== How does this movie work as a secondary source? What does the movie get right about history? ====== ====== How does this movie work as a secondary source? What does the movie get right about history? ======
  
-Disney’s 1995 film, Pocahontas, works well as an introduction for children to the history of conflict between European settlers and Native Americans. Its themes, while simple, are compelling and serve to teach the film’s younger audiences about the values of understanding, compassion, and mutual respect. The film does a good job of underlining the similarities between the two people groups in songs like Steady as The Beating Drum and Savages; while also underlining the differences in their cultural values in songs like Mine,Mine,Mine vs Colors of The Wind. As one might expect from a children’s film, the story does significantly simplify the nature of the historical events, packaging them in a characteristically Disney-esc romance, obscuring much of the real history in the process. I would have perhaps liked to have seen more of a focus on the Colonists’ reliance on trade for food, as it would have further helped to underscore the themes of working together and how much the colonists had to learn from the Native Americans. Overall, while essentially nothing more than historically inspired fiction, Disney’s 1995 film Pocahontas does work to convey the themes of America’s earliest colonial history.  -Lucca Crowe+Disney’s 1995 film, Pocahontas, works well as an introduction for children to the history of conflict between European settlers and Native Americans. **Its themes, while simple, are compelling and serve to teach the film’s younger audiences about the values of understanding, compassion, and mutual respect. The film does a good job of underlining the similarities between the two people groups in songs like Steady as The Beating Drum and Savages; while also underlining the differences in their cultural values in songs like Mine,Mine,Mine vs Colors of The Wind. As one might expect from a children’s film, the story does significantly simplify the nature of the historical events, packaging them in a characteristically Disney-esc romance, obscuring much of the real history in the process.** I would have perhaps liked to have seen more of a focus on the Colonists’ reliance on trade for food, as it would have further helped to underscore the themes of working together and how much the colonists had to learn from the Native Americans. Overall, while essentially nothing more than historically inspired fiction, Disney’s 1995 film Pocahontas does work to convey the themes of America’s earliest colonial history.  -Lucca Crowe
  
-The movie works as a secondary source in depicting history from the colonies and Native Americans. It does not work well as a secondary source because it is not very accurate. One thing it did seem to get right about history was the English’s desire for gold, wealth, and political power in Virginia.+The movie **works as a secondary source in depicting history from the colonies and Native Americans. It does not work well as a secondary source because it is not very accurate. One thing it did seem to get right about history was the English**’s desire for gold, wealth, and political power in Virginia.
  
 This movie, although inaccurate in many ways, does work as a secondary source in many ways; for starters, it explains the one of the reasonings for the English coming to America, shown in the song "The Virginia Company." In this song, the English sing, 'For the New World is like Heaven // and we'll all be rich and free // or so we have been told // by the Virginia Company.'  These lyrics describe the blessings and wealth promised by the entrepreneurs of the Virginia Company which was the main reason for attacking the Native Americans. Later on in the show, we see how the English truly viewed the Native Americans in the song "Savages." Their bigotry and disgust towards the natives is shown in the lyrics, 'Savages! Savages! // Drive them from the shore // They're not like you and me // Which means they must be evil." - Zack Steinbaum This movie, although inaccurate in many ways, does work as a secondary source in many ways; for starters, it explains the one of the reasonings for the English coming to America, shown in the song "The Virginia Company." In this song, the English sing, 'For the New World is like Heaven // and we'll all be rich and free // or so we have been told // by the Virginia Company.'  These lyrics describe the blessings and wealth promised by the entrepreneurs of the Virginia Company which was the main reason for attacking the Native Americans. Later on in the show, we see how the English truly viewed the Native Americans in the song "Savages." Their bigotry and disgust towards the natives is shown in the lyrics, 'Savages! Savages! // Drive them from the shore // They're not like you and me // Which means they must be evil." - Zack Steinbaum
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 Disney’s Pocahontas while as a whole is not super accurate to the historical period that is addressing, it does get a few aspects of history correct. In the first scene, the settlers are in England singing about their quest for “Glory, God, and Gold”. This portrayal of what the colonists were seeking is incredibly accurate, because the main goals of colonization were to get glory, spread the word of God, and to find gold. So, this initial piece of history Disney nailed right on the head. -Margaret Jones Disney’s Pocahontas while as a whole is not super accurate to the historical period that is addressing, it does get a few aspects of history correct. In the first scene, the settlers are in England singing about their quest for “Glory, God, and Gold”. This portrayal of what the colonists were seeking is incredibly accurate, because the main goals of colonization were to get glory, spread the word of God, and to find gold. So, this initial piece of history Disney nailed right on the head. -Margaret Jones
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 +As a secondary source, Disney's Pocahontas surprisingly has some value. There is conflict depicted between the Native Americans and the English, which certainly would have been commonplace during this period. However, there is almost too little conflict from what is known about the historical events. This is likely due to the sanitization of this for a children's movie. The movie is also correct in the event of the colonists looking for gold or other precious materials. In the song "Mine, Mine, Mine" sung by Radcliffe, he says they are digging for "riches for cheap," which is precisely what the proprietors of the colonies wanted. -Sarah Moore 
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 +Pocahontas works as a secondary source, not as an in depth one, but works well as an introduction. Being a children’s movie, it gives a watered-down version of the events. It gets a lot of things wrong, but it does manage to get some things right. The movie depicts the motivations of the English for wealth, which is correct. It also depicts that their expectations of the expedition were set forth by the Spanish. The gendered roles of the Native American community are depicted fairly well too, with women doing agriculture and men primarily being hunters and warriors. Most importantly though, it shows that the relationship between the English and Native Americans was not a good one. It was a relationship stained by conflict and animosity. The movie does a good job of portraying both sides in the conflict as well. - Taylor Coleman
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 +Disney’s Pocahontas works as a secondary source mainly for children. This movie works as a glorified version of the history of Native Americans and the English settlers. The main concept that is accurate from the movie is the Virginia Company and their theories of the land being filled with gold. As well as the perspective the English had on Native Americans. In the movie, the english called them “savages” and assumed the worst from them. The governor believed they were hiding all the gold, when in reality they weren’t worried about the gold. This was represented by John Smith asking Pocahontas in the movie if they had any gold and she pulled out a husk of corn. There are many inaccuracies in the movie, but this is an easily digestible version for children because it leaves out the gruesomeness of the wars between the Natives and the English, but allows them to grasp the general ideas. 
 +-Leah Bicknell
 ====== Problems with historical accuracy? Errors in fact? ====== ====== Problems with historical accuracy? Errors in fact? ======
 +
 +The first glaring plot hole with accuracy is the setting of Virginia itself…I have lived here my whole life and never once have I encountered terrain like that which the movie shows. Which is unfortunate because a lot of it looks awesome, especially the talking tree. The second being the fact that Pocahontas was a child when she met John Smith, but in the movie she’s an adult. 
 +
 +I find the magical shift into Pocahontas knowing English a little interesting as well. It reminds me of the universal translator from Star Trek, except powered by spiritual knowledge versus technology.
 +I don’t expect kid’s movies to be historically accurate, but I honestly thought that part was so ridiculous, and that is the just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this movie. -Michaela Fontenot
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 The most glaring historical inaccuracy in Disney's 1995 film Pocahontas is the nature of the primary driving romance of the film. Disney’s Pocahontas is a “Romeo and Juliet” story archetype; a tale of two lovers, from different and adverse groups, meeting and against all odds falling in love, with their relationship helping to bridge the gap between their two peoples. The issue with this story is that as a “historical” film, it has no grounding in historical fact. Far from the brave, strong-willed young woman of the Disney film, the real Pocahontas was described briefly and in passing by John Smith as a ten-year-old girl, the daughter of a local chief of the Powhatan Tribe. She served as nothing more than a show of good faith in a tense hostage negotiation, nothing more than a brief political pawn. Aside from the primary driving romance of the story, the rest of the film bears little resemblance to actual history. There is no mention of the colonists’ need for food, one of the actual driving factors in their story; nor is there much time devoted to examining the Powhatan culture or philosophy, aside from the shallowest elusion to singing with all the voices of the mountain or painting with all the colors of the wind. The most glaring historical inaccuracy in Disney's 1995 film Pocahontas is the nature of the primary driving romance of the film. Disney’s Pocahontas is a “Romeo and Juliet” story archetype; a tale of two lovers, from different and adverse groups, meeting and against all odds falling in love, with their relationship helping to bridge the gap between their two peoples. The issue with this story is that as a “historical” film, it has no grounding in historical fact. Far from the brave, strong-willed young woman of the Disney film, the real Pocahontas was described briefly and in passing by John Smith as a ten-year-old girl, the daughter of a local chief of the Powhatan Tribe. She served as nothing more than a show of good faith in a tense hostage negotiation, nothing more than a brief political pawn. Aside from the primary driving romance of the story, the rest of the film bears little resemblance to actual history. There is no mention of the colonists’ need for food, one of the actual driving factors in their story; nor is there much time devoted to examining the Powhatan culture or philosophy, aside from the shallowest elusion to singing with all the voices of the mountain or painting with all the colors of the wind.
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 A problem that I noticed in Pocahontas was the romantic plotline that played out between Pocahontas and John Smith. The whole movie is based around the fact that John Smith and Pocahontas are star crossed lovers who want to be together despite the odds. In reality, John Smith and Pocahontas were never star-crossed lovers and they never ended up together. In portraying that John Smith and Pocahontas end up together, it displays a flat-out wrong depiction of reality. -Margaret Jones A problem that I noticed in Pocahontas was the romantic plotline that played out between Pocahontas and John Smith. The whole movie is based around the fact that John Smith and Pocahontas are star crossed lovers who want to be together despite the odds. In reality, John Smith and Pocahontas were never star-crossed lovers and they never ended up together. In portraying that John Smith and Pocahontas end up together, it displays a flat-out wrong depiction of reality. -Margaret Jones
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 +This movie has many glaring historical inaccuracies. However, the most problematic one is my opinion is the relationship between Pocahontas and John Smith. In 1607 when the English landed, Pocahontas would have only been around 12, while John Smith was 35. There is also little evidence that they ever spent a substantial amount of time around each other. One of the other errors is Pocahontas being forced to marry Kocoum. In an eastern native societies, there is very little evidence women were forced to marry someone of which they did not approve. Marriage had to be approved of by the entire community for the good of the tribe. -Sarah Moore 
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 ====== How does the film’s overall interpretation(s) deviate from scholarly historical sources? ====== ====== How does the film’s overall interpretation(s) deviate from scholarly historical sources? ======
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 +//This film deviates in all aspects, the only places it didn’t is that it is set in Virginia and includes the Powhatan Tribe and the English. After those facts are established, everything goes by the wayside. Not much of anything is accurate in the movie. 
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 +None of the struggles the colonist went through are mentioned, except for the lack of riches. What about all the disease and starving? What about all the discontent and emotional toll those men went through? 
 +None of them were happy there, or thriving. Another thing is all the romantic undertones with John Smith, which never ever happened. Creative freedom is one thing, but if you choose to tell a true story, you shouldn’t just make up lies. Deviation is one thing, straight up fabrication is another.  -Michaela Fontenot
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 As we watch this movie, we need to keep in mind that it was written and designed specifically for children. With this in mind, the directors change Pocahontas' age from a young girl to a full-grown 'princess,' changing what would be a great difference in age to just a few years between Pocahontas and Smith. Many of the conflicts were also heavily modified so that the suffering, disease, and hardships that come with war were either heavily downplayed to being completely removed, simply for the sake of the children. -Zack Steinbaum As we watch this movie, we need to keep in mind that it was written and designed specifically for children. With this in mind, the directors change Pocahontas' age from a young girl to a full-grown 'princess,' changing what would be a great difference in age to just a few years between Pocahontas and Smith. Many of the conflicts were also heavily modified so that the suffering, disease, and hardships that come with war were either heavily downplayed to being completely removed, simply for the sake of the children. -Zack Steinbaum
 +
 +The interpretation of Pocahontas as a seemingly important figure in her village is what differs the most from scholarly sources. Pocahontas was one of over 30 children to Powhatan, which made it more difficult for her to gain favor with him. Pocahontas would have also been doing the same work as other women in the village, not being set with all the free time she appears to have in the movie. -Sarah Moore 
  
 ====== How does this movie work as a primary source about the time in which it was made? ======  ====== How does this movie work as a primary source about the time in which it was made? ====== 
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 This movie works well as primary source about the time it was made, as it sheds light on US attitude towards colonization at the time. At a time where the narrative had started to shift in terms of what the white colonists did was wrong and should be recognized for the severity. In that sense, Disney walked the line between calling the colonists out on their corrupt actions but also not making too large of a statement, maybe to save themselves from media scrutiny. -Margaret Jones This movie works well as primary source about the time it was made, as it sheds light on US attitude towards colonization at the time. At a time where the narrative had started to shift in terms of what the white colonists did was wrong and should be recognized for the severity. In that sense, Disney walked the line between calling the colonists out on their corrupt actions but also not making too large of a statement, maybe to save themselves from media scrutiny. -Margaret Jones
  
-===== So What Question: =====+This movie works really well as a primary source, better than a secondary source. Pocahontas represents one of the first princesses of color. Disney in the 1990s was starting to feature stories with more diverse characters; it shows a step towards representation. Prior to Pocahontas, princesses were primarily white. Disney was starting to change the kind of stories they told, and Pocahontas was an exploration into that. The movie also shows Disney’s attitudes towards colonization. Disney showed a switch of the previously dominant narrative of Native Americans being “savages”, by depicting them as more peaceful and the emphasis on their connection to nature. Pocahontas’s relationship to nature and her environment is gentle, which makes the depiction of the English immediately digging for gold when they land at Jamestown jarring. Colonization is not seen positively, and that is the narrative Disney wanted to influence their young audience with. - Taylor Coleman 
 + 
 +===== __Underlined Text__So What Question: ===== 
 + 
 +While Pocahontas doesn’t reach me the same way that it did as a child, doesn’t mean it’s not a bad movie. On the contrary, there are a lot of good parts to the movie. Think about it like this: Pocahontas (the movie) led the way towards more indigenous representation within Disney in general. Was it accurate and respectfully done? No definitely not, but it was a boost towards gauging American interest in it for example. Pocahontas (the movie) walked so the Moana (the movie) could run. Hopefully in the future Disney will make more films about indigenous culture, but put more time and effort into them. Accuracy is definitely wanted, but doesn't have to be 100%. Being respectful is necessary and something Disney needs to do a little bit better with these days.  
 +-Michaela Fontenot 
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 + 
 + 
 Disney’s Pocahontas is a mixed bag. On the one hand it presented a favorable depiction of Native Americans and top lessons of compassion and understanding to young audiences. The film, however, doesn't really try to convey any of the history it claims to be based off. At the end of the day, Disney's Pocahontas is a simplification of history, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual viewer and the collective societal audience overtime. -Lucca Crowe Disney’s Pocahontas is a mixed bag. On the one hand it presented a favorable depiction of Native Americans and top lessons of compassion and understanding to young audiences. The film, however, doesn't really try to convey any of the history it claims to be based off. At the end of the day, Disney's Pocahontas is a simplification of history, whether that's a good thing or a bad thing is up to the individual viewer and the collective societal audience overtime. -Lucca Crowe
  
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 Overall, considering the movie is for children I do think it was beautiful. I mean the producers could have definitely done better about the historic accuracy but considering they had a talking willow tree, a dynamic between a pug, hummingbird and raccoon and the unrealistic landscape (the waterfalls in Jamestown) its not what they truly want to sell. The animation is what I think was beautiful and so when it comes to history, to understand the main points of what happen? Or at least a quick view of it? It was okay. - Paula Perez Overall, considering the movie is for children I do think it was beautiful. I mean the producers could have definitely done better about the historic accuracy but considering they had a talking willow tree, a dynamic between a pug, hummingbird and raccoon and the unrealistic landscape (the waterfalls in Jamestown) its not what they truly want to sell. The animation is what I think was beautiful and so when it comes to history, to understand the main points of what happen? Or at least a quick view of it? It was okay. - Paula Perez
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 +For a lot of children, especially around my age, Pocahontas was the first introduction they had to the story of colonization of America. It continues to influence how children and even some adults understand early colonists and their relationship to the people who were already on the land, Native Americans. This movie is influential, so the way it depicts events matters. For example, I did not know that Pocahontas was not romantically involved with John Smith in real life for a long time. The movie is grossly inaccurate in those ways, such as the romantic relationship between Pocahontas and the depiction of her age. However, this movie is an introduction to the story of Jamestown, and it is told in a way that is digestible for children. It has its issues, but it is valuable in how it makes history (even if it’s off) accessible, for how it represents Disney’s mission at the time, and that it tells the story of a real person, a thing that Disney had not really done before. The real Pocahontas’s life was short, but with the movie her name will not be forgotten. - Taylor Coleman
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