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--- 329:question:329--week_2_questions_comments-2018 [2018/09/06 13:00] – [The movie as a primary source of its time] jmcclurken
+++ 329:question:329--week_2_questions_comments-2018 [2018/09/06 14:57] (current) – [Things the movie got right] 192.65.245.79
@@ Line 74: / Line 74: @@
 This part wasn't exactly accurate but it wasn't wrong how in the end John Smith had to travel back to England because of an injury. **The injury wasn't the same and their longing goodbyes most likely did not happen but the fact that John Smith had to travel back and movie Pocahontas probably doesn't actually if he survived or not is kind of like a different telling of the truth. -**Erin Andrewlevich
-A few small details about Pocahontas' tribe were factually correct. For the most part, the women are shown working agriculturally, Pocahontas and Nakoma are shown harvesting corn. The men are not shown doing this, but portrayed as warriors and the ones that discuss and make decisions about what to do about the  newly-arrived Europeans. Native American men rather than women were primarily the 'diplomats' during this time, dealing with relationships with other tribes and European settlers as it progressed.
+A few small details about Pocahontas' tribe were factually correct. For the most part, the women are shown working agriculturally, Pocahontas and Nakoma are shown harvesting corn. The men are not shown doing this, but portrayed as warriors and the ones that discuss and make decisions about what to do about the  newly-arrived Europeans. Native American men rather than women were primarily the 'diplomats' during this time, dealing with relationships with other tribes and European settlers as it progressed. --Jessie Fitzgerald
 **One of the things the move got right was the portrayal of the gender diversification between the male and female Indians. It showed the women working in the fields, where they would be considered farmers. While the men were portrayed as hunters and fisherman. –** Courtlyn Plunkett
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 ====== Comparing the reading to the movie ======
-I found that reading was very detailed and at times was challenging to follow due to its use of 1600’s Kings English.  The reading doesn’t substantiate the relationship between Smith or Pocahontas as romantic and there is no mention of her ‘saving’ his life by intervening when the father of one of the men killed by Smith comes to take revenge. – Andrew Mullins
+**I found that reading was very detailed and at times was challenging to follow due to its use of 1600’s Kings English.**  The reading doesn’t substantiate the relationship between Smith or Pocahontas as romantic and there is no mention of her ‘saving’ his life by intervening when the father of one of the men killed by Smith comes to take revenge. – Andrew Mullins
-One thing that I noticed in the reading was that Captain Smith had a strong relationship with many native tribes. They knew who he was and welcomed him when he arrived; many natives also ventured into the English fort with him. In the reading, Smith also had many encounters with Chief Powhatan. Yet in the movie, Smith and the English settlers do not have conversations with the natives and stay to themselves. Of course relations between the English settlers and the natives did eventually break down, but the film denies that John Smith interacted with the natives.              - Maddie Shiflett
+**One thing that I noticed in the reading was that Captain Smith had a strong relationship with many native tribes. They knew who he was and welcomed him when he arrived; many natives also ventured into the English fort with him. In the reading, Smith also had many encounters with Chief Powhatan**. Yet in the movie, Smith and the English settlers do not have conversations with the natives and stay to themselves. Of course relations between the English settlers and the natives did eventually break down, but the film denies that John Smith interacted with the natives.              - Maddie Shiflett
-I thought that the movie altered the true personality of Captain Smith that we see in the reading. In real life, Smith seemed to be very dedicated to his men and his purpose of colonizing for England. Yet, in the movie, Smith is cast as a day-dreamer who sneaks off and leaves his men to manage without him while he goes to spend time with Pocahontas. -Maddie Shiflett
+**I thought that the movie altered the true personality of Captain Smith that we see in the reading. In real life, Smith seemed to be very dedicated to his men and his purpose of colonizing for England.** Yet, in the movie, Smith is cast as a day-dreamer who sneaks off and leaves his men to manage without him while he goes to spend time with Pocahontas. -Maddie Shiflett
-As stated in the reading and this Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EPY1CKFecs&frags=pl%2Cwn), Pocahontas was “a child of tenne years old,” not a grown adult who falls in love with the first white man she sees. In the reading John Smith also admits to observing mysterious “Religion and Ceremony,” which translates to a ritual he does not understand, such as one where he thinks he is being killed. The movie fails to portray John Smith’s interactions with Powhatan, including a description of King James I to Powhatan in which John Smith notes that “he admired: and not a little feared” the king of England. The movie also does not portray Powhatan proclaiming John Smith as the “Awerowanes of Powhatan” and the great esteem the followers of Powhatan showed to Smith.  I presume the directors avoided discussing John Smith’s complicated relations with numerous Native tribes to propel the forbidden love story and ‘overcoming barriers’ narrative of Pocahontas. -- Jessica Lynch
+As stated in the reading and this Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EPY1CKFecs&frags=pl%2Cwn), Pocahontas was “a child of tenne years old,” not a grown adult who falls in love with the first white man she sees. In the reading John Smith also admits to observing mysterious “Religion and Ceremony,” which translates to a ritual he does not understand, such as one where he thinks he is being killed. **The movie fails to portray John Smith’s interactions with Powhatan, including a description of King James I to Powhatan in which John Smith notes that “he admired: and not a little feared” the king of England. The movie also does not portray Powhatan proclaiming John Smith as the “Awerowanes of Powhatan” and the great esteem the followers of Powhatan showed to Smith.**  I presume the directors avoided discussing John Smith’s complicated relations with numerous Native tribes to propel the forbidden love story and ‘overcoming barriers’ narrative of Pocahontas. -- Jessica Lynch
-The reading definitely emphasizes the difficulties faced by the colonists when they arrived, whereas the movie hardly mentions them, other than the lack of food. However, this could be because Miko ate all their biscuits. The historical John Smith is somewhat similar to the film John Smith, in that he seems to be more willing to work with the Natives than his counterparts. However, we can't know that for sure, since this is Smith's writing. He does seem to revere Pocahontas, albeit not in a romantic way, because she is a "princess", which is the narrative Disney is also pushing with the film. Pocahontas is special to colonists and those of us who only learned the colonists' side of history because of their ideas about her, not who she truly was. -Erin Shaw
+**The reading definitely emphasizes the difficulties faced by the colonists when they arrived, whereas the movie hardly mentions them, other than the lack of food. However, this could be because Miko ate all their biscuits.** The historical John Smith is somewhat similar to the film John Smith, in that he seems to be more willing to work with the Natives than his counterparts. However, we can't know that for sure, since this is Smith's writing. He does seem to revere Pocahontas, albeit not in a romantic way, because she is a "princess", which is the narrative Disney is also pushing with the film. Pocahontas is special to colonists and those of us who only learned the colonists' side of history because of their ideas about her, not who she truly was. -Erin Shaw
 ====== The "So, what?" question ======
-Was it right for the authors of the film to have portrayed Pocahontas as the love interest of John Smith and subsequently the savior of her people at the expense of historical accuracy, especially when so much is known about her age and actual marriage to John Rolfe? – Andrew Mullins
+**Was it right for the authors of the film to have portrayed Pocahontas as the love interest of John Smith and subsequently the savior of her people at the expense of historical accuracy, especially when so much is known about her age and actual marriage to John Rolfe?** – Andrew Mullins
 At the beginning of the film, there was a map that Ratcliffe was looking at and I wonder if it was accurate? Mexico was Mexica and everything North of that was Virginia. There were places that had a treasure chest drawn next to them and I don’t know if that meant he knew for a fact there was gold and had been there or if they were assumptions that gold was there. - Johana Colchado
-So, what’s the point of this movie? Why did Disney go out of their way to pour millions of dollars into animations and voice actors to create this film? Well I’m sure Disney was searching for their next big movie of the time and Director Gabriel brought this movie to life. Or maybe Disney was just itching to release further content teaching the youth of America that we should love each other, hold hands and sang songs. It plays with the theme, that if we don’t learn to live with one another, we will destroy ourselves. Disney is all about that feel good, happy ending movie. This movie was ever meant to be an accurate portrayal of those earlier events in history, it’s just supposed to be a movie that teaches people to be kind human beings and to learn from one another.  -Amiti Colson
+**So, what’s the point of this movie? Why did Disney go out of their way to pour millions of dollars into animations and voice actors to create this film?** Well I’m sure Disney was searching for their next big movie of the time and Director Gabriel brought this movie to life. Or maybe Disney was just itching to release further content teaching the youth of America that we should love each other, hold hands and sang songs. It plays with the theme, that if we don’t learn to live with one another, we will destroy ourselves. Disney is all about that feel good, happy ending movie. This movie was ever meant to be an accurate portrayal of those earlier events in history, it’s just supposed to be a movie that teaches people to be kind human beings and to learn from one another.  -Amiti Colson
-What is the significance of the film's ending? Why did Disney dissatisfy viewers by separating John Smith and Pocahontas in the end? It is not like Disney had issues with making things up that did not really happen. -Maddie Shiflett
+**What is the significance of the film's ending? Why did Disney dissatisfy viewers by separating John Smith and Pocahontas in the end? It is not like Disney had issues with making things up that did not really happen**. -Maddie Shiflett
 I ask Maddie's above question every time I watch this movie. I do not understand why they take so many creative liberties and then separate John Smith and Pocahontas. At that point just let them settle down on one of the nonexistent mountains in the Tidewater and raise 10 kids. - Lake Wiley
-There are multiple questions that can be taken from this movie, and all of them relate back to the fact that this film was released in the middle of what is known as the Disney Renaissance period; a period in Disney's animated films where they continued to release hit after hit. Keep in mind that the three movies that were released before //Pocahontas// were //Beauty and the Beast//, //Aladdin//, and //The Lion King//. Why did Disney decide that the story of Jamestown's founding was going to be the next big hit? If they were going to make such drastic changes to the source material, why even use this story? What was its overall significance (if any)? Admittedly, I don't think this question can be answered with just Pocahontas alone, because the next two films Disney released after this were //The Hunchback of Notre Dame// and //Hercules//, both of which are now considered mediocre nostalgia trips, and both which have so many inaccuracies to their source materials (much like //Pocahontas//). -Robert Dallas
+**There are multiple questions that can be taken from this movie, and all of them relate back to the fact that this film was released in the middle of what is known as the Disney Renaissance period; a period in Disney's animated films where they continued to release hit after hit.** Keep in mind that the three movies that were released before //Pocahontas// were //Beauty and the Beast//, //Aladdin//, and //The Lion King//. Why did Disney decide that the story of Jamestown's founding was going to be the next big hit? If they were going to make such drastic changes to the source material, why even use this story? What was its overall significance (if any)? Admittedly, I don't think this question can be answered with just Pocahontas alone, because the next two films Disney released after this were //The Hunchback of Notre Dame// and //Hercules//, both of which are now considered mediocre nostalgia trips, and both which have so many inaccuracies to their source materials (much like //Pocahontas//). -Robert Dallas
-How does Disney’s Pocahontas change the American public’s perception of Native Americans? Along with a celebratory enthusiasm for Columbus Day in public schools when we were children and portrayals of imperialists as riveting adventurers, Pocahontas continued to minimize the complete decimation of Native populations due to European disease and violence. Pocahontas appeals to audiences by portraying an unconditional romance, and as a result, young audiences are not cognisant of the truly detrimental effect colonialism had on the environment, a 90% decrease in Eastern Woodland Native populations, or the dangerous precedent which perpetuated the marginalization of Native Americans until present day. Although today Native Americans are still the most underrepresented group in the nation, a noticeable shift in awareness regarding their maltreatment has emerged. Indigenous Peoples Day replaces the holiday once used to celebrate Christopher Columbus, and most people can now look at Pocahontas and say “wow this is not at all legit.” Needless to say, we still have a long way to go. -- Jessica Lynch
+**How does Disney’s Pocahontas change the American public’s perception of Native Americans? Along with a celebratory enthusiasm for Columbus Day in public schools when we were children and portrayals of imperialists as riveting adventurers, Pocahontas continued to minimize the complete decimation of Native populations due to European disease and violence.** Pocahontas appeals to audiences by portraying an unconditional romance, and as a result, young audiences are not cognisant of the truly detrimental effect colonialism had on the environment, a 90% decrease in Eastern Woodland Native populations, or the dangerous precedent which perpetuated the marginalization of Native Americans until present day. Although today Native Americans are still the most underrepresented group in the nation, a noticeable shift in awareness regarding their maltreatment has emerged. Indigenous Peoples Day replaces the holiday once used to celebrate Christopher Columbus, and most people can now look at Pocahontas and say “wow this is not at all legit.” Needless to say, we still have a long way to go. -- Jessica Lynch
-So why is Disney starting to use Pocahontas again in their advertising of the princesses? Pocahontas is appearing in Wreck it Ralph 2 as a part of the Disney princess cast. When I was a child, after her movie, Pocahontas was not advertised or marketed much. I find it interesting that she is becoming more popular again as Disney is scrambling to diversify its films. However, I think using Pocahontas as a marketing tool is equally as offensive as her movie, because it feels like pandering. If Disney wants to use her, they should correct her past with a reboot film, in which she is a child and not in love with John Smith. Perhaps they could even tell her story with John Rolfe better than her story with Smith (and her straight-to-VHS movie). This would be the only Disney reboot that may be worth the money. -Erin Shaw
+**So why is Disney starting to use Pocahontas again in their advertising of the princesses? Pocahontas is appearing in Wreck it Ralph 2 as a part of the Disney princess cast. When I was a child, after her movie, Pocahontas was not advertised or marketed much. I find it interesting that she is becoming more popular again as Disney is scrambling to diversify its films. However, I think using Pocahontas as a marketing tool is equally as offensive as her movie, because it feels like pandering.** If Disney wants to use her, they should correct her past with a reboot film, in which she is a child and not in love with John Smith. Perhaps they could even tell her story with John Rolfe better than her story with Smith (and her straight-to-VHS movie). This would be the only Disney reboot that may be worth the money. -Erin Shaw
-The history of English settlement and relationships with Native Americans is so important in our nation’s history, and I find it very concerning that there is a children’s movie so popular that is so inaccurate to this history. I know now as an adult that this is not how it really happened, but if I had watched this movie a million times as a child instead of "The Aristocats" I would have been much more confused about the actual relations between Native Americans and English settlers when I learned the truth in school. To me it is very important for children’s movies not to mislead. – Carolyn Stough
+The history of English settlement and relationships with Native Americans is so important in our nation’s history, and **I find it very concerning that there is a children’s movie so popular that is so inaccurate to this history. I know now as an adult that this is not how it really happened, but if I had watched this movie a million times as a child instead of "The Aristocats" I would have been much more confused about the actual relations between Native Americans and English settlers when I learned the truth in school. To me it is very important for children’s movies not to mislead**. – Carolyn Stough
-This movie came out when I was 7. I had never heard the story, or anything involved with it. It wasn’t until eighth grade that as a class we re-watched it and discussed the inaccuracies and discovered the truths in the story.I think it’s great that Disney can plant these little seeds of knowledge to get people to dig deeper into history. There is a key point in the film where its at 44:48 where Ratcliffe is talking to his aide and asks, “Why are they trying to attack us” and the aide says, “because we took their land, cut down their trees, and dug up their earth.” That is for the adults. We know this film is inaccurate, but it does well to start to introduce children to history.  I was totally not confused when I learned the real story. I was also not upset when I learned the real story. Movies don’t equal real life.--William Roszell
+**This movie came out when I was 7. I had never heard the story, or anything involved with it. It wasn’t until eighth grade that as a class we re-watched it and discussed the inaccuracies and discovered the truths in the story.I think it’s great that Disney can plant these little seeds of knowledge to get people to dig deeper into history.** There is a key point in the film where its at 44:48 where Ratcliffe is talking to his aide and asks, “Why are they trying to attack us” and the aide says, “because we took their land, cut down their trees, and dug up their earth.” That is for the adults. We know this film is inaccurate, but it does well to start to introduce children to history.  I was totally not confused when I learned the real story. I was also not upset when I learned the real story. **Movies don’t equal real life.-**-William Roszell
-Tackling Native American storylines in movies accurately consistently becomes a challenge for most directors, screenwriters, and etc. How can that be changed for the better so that even though their target audience is for children, if there was to be another movie like Pocahontas, the story would still be accurate about what it was like to be a Native American and their vast cultures? -- Ellora Larsen
+Tackling Native American storylines in movies accurately consistently becomes a challenge for most directors, screenwriters, and etc. **How can that be changed for the better so that even though their target audience is for children, if there was to be another movie like Pocahontas, the story would still be accurate about what it was like to be a Native American and their vast cultures?** -- Ellora Larsen