Differences

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--- 329:question:329--week_2_questions_comments-2018 [2018/09/06 12:36] – [Questions about interpretation] jmcclurken
+++ 329:question:329--week_2_questions_comments-2018 [2018/09/06 14:57] (current) – [Things the movie got right] 192.65.245.79
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 This part wasn't exactly accurate but it wasn't wrong how in the end John Smith had to travel back to England because of an injury. **The injury wasn't the same and their longing goodbyes most likely did not happen but the fact that John Smith had to travel back and movie Pocahontas probably doesn't actually if he survived or not is kind of like a different telling of the truth. -**Erin Andrewlevich
-A few small details about Pocahontas' tribe were factually correct. For the most part, the women are shown working agriculturally, Pocahontas and Nakoma are shown harvesting corn. The men are not shown doing this, but portrayed as warriors and the ones that discuss and make decisions about what to do about the  newly-arrived Europeans. Native American men rather than women were primarily the 'diplomats' during this time, dealing with relationships with other tribes and European settlers as it progressed.
+A few small details about Pocahontas' tribe were factually correct. For the most part, the women are shown working agriculturally, Pocahontas and Nakoma are shown harvesting corn. The men are not shown doing this, but portrayed as warriors and the ones that discuss and make decisions about what to do about the  newly-arrived Europeans. Native American men rather than women were primarily the 'diplomats' during this time, dealing with relationships with other tribes and European settlers as it progressed. --Jessie Fitzgerald
 **One of the things the move got right was the portrayal of the gender diversification between the male and female Indians. It showed the women working in the fields, where they would be considered farmers. While the men were portrayed as hunters and fisherman. –** Courtlyn Plunkett
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 The film could be considered an accurate representation of a primary source of historically based fantasy animation for the mid-1990’s. And, is the first time a female native American princess is in a Disney film.  The movie takes liberties to incorporate some of the lore-based details to portray Pocahontas as a heroine. It is also an example of Mel Gibson and Christian Bale as actors in 1990's animation. – Andrew Mullins
+**
+The movie showed the nicer side of how people might want the story of Pocahontas to be portrayed**. The message in the movie was about two racially different groups of people who feared the other because of their differences and this was only overcome by the love and compassion shown in Pocahontas’s love for John Smith. This is not how the history actually played out and instead there was bloodshed that stained this crucial part of American history.  **The movie rewrites history in a way that shows how people in the 1990’s wish to view their past.  The openness and acceptance that they felt in the 1990’s is imposed on the 1600’s which is detrimental because it makes it seem like these were lessons learned long ago and not modern reform that is still ongoing.** If we believe that Native Americans and European settlers got along after Pocahontas it erases the untold number of deaths due to intolerance in the centuries that followed. **The message of toleration is important when understanding the attitudes of those who worked on the movie in the 1990’s, but not helpful when trying to understand the mindset of settlers in the 1600’s.**--Grace Corkran
-//The movie showed the nicer side of how people might want the story of Pocahontas to be portrayed. The message in the movie was about two racially different groups of people who feared the other because of their differences and this was only overcome by the love and compassion shown in Pocahontas’s love for John Smith. This is not how the history actually played out and instead there was bloodshed that stained this crucial part of American history.
+**This movie corrects past stereotypes that appeared in films from earlier time periods. It corrects the notion that Natives are “savages." Many films before Pocahontas did not always cast Native Americans in a positive light. Within this movie, Native Americans of the 1600’s are shown as empathetic people with a highly valued culture.** Regardless of the countless inaccuracies of this movie, at least the native Americans are not the enemies. The entire plot of this movie was rooted in an old rumor, where a young Pocahontas saved the life of Captain John Smith from execution. It takes that story and dramatizes it on unproportionable levels in order to teach children a lesson about acceptance. Disney in the 1990’s wanted to broaden its horizons and give more groups representation in film. Also, it shows that movie producers of the 90's had a vested interest in entertaining their viewers and making sure that movies sold, which is probably why they changed the story line so much. -Maddie Shiflett
-The movie rewrites history in a way that shows how people in the 1990’s wish to view their past.  The openness and acceptance that they felt in the 1990’s is imposed on the 1600’s which is detrimental because it makes it seem like these were lessons learned long ago and not modern reform that is still ongoing.
-If we believe that Native Americans and European settlers got along after Pocahontas it erases the untold number of deaths due to intolerance in the centuries that followed. The message of toleration is important when understanding the attitudes of those who worked on the movie in the 1990’s, but not helpful when trying to understand the mindset of settlers in the 1600’s.//--Grace Corkran
-This movie corrects past stereotypes that appeared in films from earlier time periods. It corrects the notion that Natives are “savages." Many films before Pocahontas did not always cast Native Americans in a positive light. Within this movie, Native Americans of the 1600’s are shown as empathetic people with a highly valued culture. Regardless of the countless inaccuracies of this movie, at least the native Americans are not the enemies. The entire plot of this movie was rooted in an old rumor, where a young Pocahontas saved the life of Captain John Smith from execution. It takes that story and dramatizes it on unproportionable levels in order to teach children a lesson about acceptance. Disney in the 1990’s wanted to broaden its horizons and give more groups representation in film. Also, it shows that movie producers of the 90's had a vested interest in entertaining their viewers and making sure that movies sold, which is probably why they changed the story line so much. -Maddie Shiflett
-The film Pocahontas is a good source on the evolution a story can have overtime when retold over many years. It is also a good source on how Disney uses source material in their movies. What is presented by Disney is more of a Romeo and Juliet story with the setting and characters of John Smith’s story. This tactic was used by Disney on many other stories like Snow White, Cinderella, and Little Mermaid to make it more accessible for a wide audience.- Kyle Moore
+The film Pocahontas is a good source on the evolution a story can have overtime when retold over many years. It is also a good source on how Disney uses source material in their movies. **What is presented by Disney is more of a Romeo and Juliet story with the setting and characters of John Smith’s story.** This tactic was used by Disney on many other stories like Snow White, Cinderella, and Little Mermaid to make it more accessible for a wide audience.- Kyle Moore
-There is a reason people refer to these stories as being “Disney-fied” especially the ones during the time this film was made. Disney has never been a company that wants to rock the boat or get involved in any sort of controversy. This is especially inherent with this film in particular because the true information about Pocahontas’s story was available at the time this movie was made, but Disney chose to simplify and “Disney-fy” it in order to make money and not have the content of their film become concerning to parents. – Carolyn Stough
+**There is a reason people refer to these stories as being “Disney-fied” especially the ones during the time this film was made. Disney has never been a company that wants to rock the boat or get involved in any sort of controversy**. This is especially inherent with this film in particular because the true information about Pocahontas’s story was available at the time this movie was made, but Disney chose to simplify and “Disney-fy” it in order to make money and not have the content of their film become concerning to parents. – Carolyn Stough
-The movie acts as a good representation of the times it was made, as it shows an intent to portray Native Americans not as the savages they had been portrayed in the past, but does not actually accurately portray their society. The portrayal of the “less civilized” as being much closer and in tune with nature, with multiple scenes in the movie showing the Native Americans talking with spirits or living in harmony with animals, is a stereotype Western cultures put on cultures they perceive as less developed. In this way, the movie actually simplifies and misrepresents much of Native American culture as it instead focuses on their connection with nature above all else with most of their songs being either about nature or using nature metaphors.  -Sky Horne
+The movie acts as a good representation of the times it was made, as it shows an intent to portray Native Americans not as the savages they had been portrayed in the past, but does not actually accurately portray their society**. The portrayal of the “less civilized” as being much closer and in tune with nature, with multiple scenes in the movie showing the Native Americans talking with spirits or living in harmony with animals, is a stereotype Western cultures put on cultures they perceive as less developed. In this way, the movie actually simplifies and misrepresents much of Native American culture as it instead focuses on their connection with nature above all else with most of their songs being either about nature or using nature metaphors. ** -Sky Horne
 ====== Comparing the reading to the movie ======
-I found that reading was very detailed and at times was challenging to follow due to its use of 1600’s Kings English.  The reading doesn’t substantiate the relationship between Smith or Pocahontas as romantic and there is no mention of her ‘saving’ his life by intervening when the father of one of the men killed by Smith comes to take revenge. – Andrew Mullins
+**I found that reading was very detailed and at times was challenging to follow due to its use of 1600’s Kings English.**  The reading doesn’t substantiate the relationship between Smith or Pocahontas as romantic and there is no mention of her ‘saving’ his life by intervening when the father of one of the men killed by Smith comes to take revenge. – Andrew Mullins
-One thing that I noticed in the reading was that Captain Smith had a strong relationship with many native tribes. They knew who he was and welcomed him when he arrived; many natives also ventured into the English fort with him. In the reading, Smith also had many encounters with Chief Powhatan. Yet in the movie, Smith and the English settlers do not have conversations with the natives and stay to themselves. Of course relations between the English settlers and the natives did eventually break down, but the film denies that John Smith interacted with the natives.              - Maddie Shiflett
+**One thing that I noticed in the reading was that Captain Smith had a strong relationship with many native tribes. They knew who he was and welcomed him when he arrived; many natives also ventured into the English fort with him. In the reading, Smith also had many encounters with Chief Powhatan**. Yet in the movie, Smith and the English settlers do not have conversations with the natives and stay to themselves. Of course relations between the English settlers and the natives did eventually break down, but the film denies that John Smith interacted with the natives.              - Maddie Shiflett
-I thought that the movie altered the true personality of Captain Smith that we see in the reading. In real life, Smith seemed to be very dedicated to his men and his purpose of colonizing for England. Yet, in the movie, Smith is cast as a day-dreamer who sneaks off and leaves his men to manage without him while he goes to spend time with Pocahontas. -Maddie Shiflett
+**I thought that the movie altered the true personality of Captain Smith that we see in the reading. In real life, Smith seemed to be very dedicated to his men and his purpose of colonizing for England.** Yet, in the movie, Smith is cast as a day-dreamer who sneaks off and leaves his men to manage without him while he goes to spend time with Pocahontas. -Maddie Shiflett
-As stated in the reading and this Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EPY1CKFecs&frags=pl%2Cwn), Pocahontas was “a child of tenne years old,” not a grown adult who falls in love with the first white man she sees. In the reading John Smith also admits to observing mysterious “Religion and Ceremony,” which translates to a ritual he does not understand, such as one where he thinks he is being killed. The movie fails to portray John Smith’s interactions with Powhatan, including a description of King James I to Powhatan in which John Smith notes that “he admired: and not a little feared” the king of England. The movie also does not portray Powhatan proclaiming John Smith as the “Awerowanes of Powhatan” and the great esteem the followers of Powhatan showed to Smith.  I presume the directors avoided discussing John Smith’s complicated relations with numerous Native tribes to propel the forbidden love story and ‘overcoming barriers’ narrative of Pocahontas. -- Jessica Lynch
+As stated in the reading and this Youtube video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EPY1CKFecs&frags=pl%2Cwn), Pocahontas was “a child of tenne years old,” not a grown adult who falls in love with the first white man she sees. In the reading John Smith also admits to observing mysterious “Religion and Ceremony,” which translates to a ritual he does not understand, such as one where he thinks he is being killed. **The movie fails to portray John Smith’s interactions with Powhatan, including a description of King James I to Powhatan in which John Smith notes that “he admired: and not a little feared” the king of England. The movie also does not portray Powhatan proclaiming John Smith as the “Awerowanes of Powhatan” and the great esteem the followers of Powhatan showed to Smith.**  I presume the directors avoided discussing John Smith’s complicated relations with numerous Native tribes to propel the forbidden love story and ‘overcoming barriers’ narrative of Pocahontas. -- Jessica Lynch
-The reading definitely emphasizes the difficulties faced by the colonists when they arrived, whereas the movie hardly mentions them, other than the lack of food. However, this could be because Miko ate all their biscuits. The historical John Smith is somewhat similar to the film John Smith, in that he seems to be more willing to work with the Natives than his counterparts. However, we can't know that for sure, since this is Smith's writing. He does seem to revere Pocahontas, albeit not in a romantic way, because she is a "princess", which is the narrative Disney is also pushing with the film. Pocahontas is special to colonists and those of us who only learned the colonists' side of history because of their ideas about her, not who she truly was. -Erin Shaw
+**The reading definitely emphasizes the difficulties faced by the colonists when they arrived, whereas the movie hardly mentions them, other than the lack of food. However, this could be because Miko ate all their biscuits.** The historical John Smith is somewhat similar to the film John Smith, in that he seems to be more willing to work with the Natives than his counterparts. However, we can't know that for sure, since this is Smith's writing. He does seem to revere Pocahontas, albeit not in a romantic way, because she is a "princess", which is the narrative Disney is also pushing with the film. Pocahontas is special to colonists and those of us who only learned the colonists' side of history because of their ideas about her, not who she truly was. -Erin Shaw
 ====== The "So, what?" question ======
-Was it right for the authors of the film to have portrayed Pocahontas as the love interest of John Smith and subsequently the savior of her people at the expense of historical accuracy, especially when so much is known about her age and actual marriage to John Rolfe? – Andrew Mullins
+**Was it right for the authors of the film to have portrayed Pocahontas as the love interest of John Smith and subsequently the savior of her people at the expense of historical accuracy, especially when so much is known about her age and actual marriage to John Rolfe?** – Andrew Mullins
 At the beginning of the film, there was a map that Ratcliffe was looking at and I wonder if it was accurate? Mexico was Mexica and everything North of that was Virginia. There were places that had a treasure chest drawn next to them and I don’t know if that meant he knew for a fact there was gold and had been there or if they were assumptions that gold was there. - Johana Colchado
-So, what’s the point of this movie? Why did Disney go out of their way to pour millions of dollars into animations and voice actors to create this film? Well I’m sure Disney was searching for their next big movie of the time and Director Gabriel brought this movie to life. Or maybe Disney was just itching to release further content teaching the youth of America that we should love each other, hold hands and sang songs. It plays with the theme, that if we don’t learn to live with one another, we will destroy ourselves. Disney is all about that feel good, happy ending movie. This movie was ever meant to be an accurate portrayal of those earlier events in history, it’s just supposed to be a movie that teaches people to be kind human beings and to learn from one another.  -Amiti Colson
+**So, what’s the point of this movie? Why did Disney go out of their way to pour millions of dollars into animations and voice actors to create this film?** Well I’m sure Disney was searching for their next big movie of the time and Director Gabriel brought this movie to life. Or maybe Disney was just itching to release further content teaching the youth of America that we should love each other, hold hands and sang songs. It plays with the theme, that if we don’t learn to live with one another, we will destroy ourselves. Disney is all about that feel good, happy ending movie. This movie was ever meant to be an accurate portrayal of those earlier events in history, it’s just supposed to be a movie that teaches people to be kind human beings and to learn from one another.  -Amiti Colson
-What is the significance of the film's ending? Why did Disney dissatisfy viewers by separating John Smith and Pocahontas in the end? It is not like Disney had issues with making things up that did not really happen. -Maddie Shiflett
+**What is the significance of the film's ending? Why did Disney dissatisfy viewers by separating John Smith and Pocahontas in the end? It is not like Disney had issues with making things up that did not really happen**. -Maddie Shiflett
 I ask Maddie's above question every time I watch this movie. I do not understand why they take so many creative liberties and then separate John Smith and Pocahontas. At that point just let them settle down on one of the nonexistent mountains in the Tidewater and raise 10 kids. - Lake Wiley
-There are multiple questions that can be taken from this movie, and all of them relate back to the fact that this film was released in the middle of what is known as the Disney Renaissance period; a period in Disney's animated films where they continued to release hit after hit. Keep in mind that the three movies that were released before //Pocahontas// were //Beauty and the Beast//, //Aladdin//, and //The Lion King//. Why did Disney decide that the story of Jamestown's founding was going to be the next big hit? If they were going to make such drastic changes to the source material, why even use this story? What was its overall significance (if any)? Admittedly, I don't think this question can be answered with just Pocahontas alone, because the next two films Disney released after this were //The Hunchback of Notre Dame// and //Hercules//, both of which are now considered mediocre nostalgia trips, and both which have so many inaccuracies to their source materials (much like //Pocahontas//). -Robert Dallas
+**There are multiple questions that can be taken from this movie, and all of them relate back to the fact that this film was released in the middle of what is known as the Disney Renaissance period; a period in Disney's animated films where they continued to release hit after hit.** Keep in mind that the three movies that were released before //Pocahontas// were //Beauty and the Beast//, //Aladdin//, and //The Lion King//. Why did Disney decide that the story of Jamestown's founding was going to be the next big hit? If they were going to make such drastic changes to the source material, why even use this story? What was its overall significance (if any)? Admittedly, I don't think this question can be answered with just Pocahontas alone, because the next two films Disney released after this were //The Hunchback of Notre Dame// and //Hercules//, both of which are now considered mediocre nostalgia trips, and both which have so many inaccuracies to their source materials (much like //Pocahontas//). -Robert Dallas
-How does Disney’s Pocahontas change the American public’s perception of Native Americans? Along with a celebratory enthusiasm for Columbus Day in public schools when we were children and portrayals of imperialists as riveting adventurers, Pocahontas continued to minimize the complete decimation of Native populations due to European disease and violence. Pocahontas appeals to audiences by portraying an unconditional romance, and as a result, young audiences are not cognisant of the truly detrimental effect colonialism had on the environment, a 90% decrease in Eastern Woodland Native populations, or the dangerous precedent which perpetuated the marginalization of Native Americans until present day. Although today Native Americans are still the most underrepresented group in the nation, a noticeable shift in awareness regarding their maltreatment has emerged. Indigenous Peoples Day replaces the holiday once used to celebrate Christopher Columbus, and most people can now look at Pocahontas and say “wow this is not at all legit.” Needless to say, we still have a long way to go. -- Jessica Lynch
+**How does Disney’s Pocahontas change the American public’s perception of Native Americans? Along with a celebratory enthusiasm for Columbus Day in public schools when we were children and portrayals of imperialists as riveting adventurers, Pocahontas continued to minimize the complete decimation of Native populations due to European disease and violence.** Pocahontas appeals to audiences by portraying an unconditional romance, and as a result, young audiences are not cognisant of the truly detrimental effect colonialism had on the environment, a 90% decrease in Eastern Woodland Native populations, or the dangerous precedent which perpetuated the marginalization of Native Americans until present day. Although today Native Americans are still the most underrepresented group in the nation, a noticeable shift in awareness regarding their maltreatment has emerged. Indigenous Peoples Day replaces the holiday once used to celebrate Christopher Columbus, and most people can now look at Pocahontas and say “wow this is not at all legit.” Needless to say, we still have a long way to go. -- Jessica Lynch
-So why is Disney starting to use Pocahontas again in their advertising of the princesses? Pocahontas is appearing in Wreck it Ralph 2 as a part of the Disney princess cast. When I was a child, after her movie, Pocahontas was not advertised or marketed much. I find it interesting that she is becoming more popular again as Disney is scrambling to diversify its films. However, I think using Pocahontas as a marketing tool is equally as offensive as her movie, because it feels like pandering. If Disney wants to use her, they should correct her past with a reboot film, in which she is a child and not in love with John Smith. Perhaps they could even tell her story with John Rolfe better than her story with Smith (and her straight-to-VHS movie). This would be the only Disney reboot that may be worth the money. -Erin Shaw
+**So why is Disney starting to use Pocahontas again in their advertising of the princesses? Pocahontas is appearing in Wreck it Ralph 2 as a part of the Disney princess cast. When I was a child, after her movie, Pocahontas was not advertised or marketed much. I find it interesting that she is becoming more popular again as Disney is scrambling to diversify its films. However, I think using Pocahontas as a marketing tool is equally as offensive as her movie, because it feels like pandering.** If Disney wants to use her, they should correct her past with a reboot film, in which she is a child and not in love with John Smith. Perhaps they could even tell her story with John Rolfe better than her story with Smith (and her straight-to-VHS movie). This would be the only Disney reboot that may be worth the money. -Erin Shaw
-The history of English settlement and relationships with Native Americans is so important in our nation’s history, and I find it very concerning that there is a children’s movie so popular that is so inaccurate to this history. I know now as an adult that this is not how it really happened, but if I had watched this movie a million times as a child instead of "The Aristocats" I would have been much more confused about the actual relations between Native Americans and English settlers when I learned the truth in school. To me it is very important for children’s movies not to mislead. – Carolyn Stough
+The history of English settlement and relationships with Native Americans is so important in our nation’s history, and **I find it very concerning that there is a children’s movie so popular that is so inaccurate to this history. I know now as an adult that this is not how it really happened, but if I had watched this movie a million times as a child instead of "The Aristocats" I would have been much more confused about the actual relations between Native Americans and English settlers when I learned the truth in school. To me it is very important for children’s movies not to mislead**. – Carolyn Stough
-This movie came out when I was 7. I had never heard the story, or anything involved with it. It wasn’t until eighth grade that as a class we re-watched it and discussed the inaccuracies and discovered the truths in the story.I think it’s great that Disney can plant these little seeds of knowledge to get people to dig deeper into history. There is a key point in the film where its at 44:48 where Ratcliffe is talking to his aide and asks, “Why are they trying to attack us” and the aide says, “because we took their land, cut down their trees, and dug up their earth.” That is for the adults. We know this film is inaccurate, but it does well to start to introduce children to history.  I was totally not confused when I learned the real story. I was also not upset when I learned the real story. Movies don’t equal real life.--William Roszell
+**This movie came out when I was 7. I had never heard the story, or anything involved with it. It wasn’t until eighth grade that as a class we re-watched it and discussed the inaccuracies and discovered the truths in the story.I think it’s great that Disney can plant these little seeds of knowledge to get people to dig deeper into history.** There is a key point in the film where its at 44:48 where Ratcliffe is talking to his aide and asks, “Why are they trying to attack us” and the aide says, “because we took their land, cut down their trees, and dug up their earth.” That is for the adults. We know this film is inaccurate, but it does well to start to introduce children to history.  I was totally not confused when I learned the real story. I was also not upset when I learned the real story. **Movies don’t equal real life.-**-William Roszell
-Tackling Native American storylines in movies accurately consistently becomes a challenge for most directors, screenwriters, and etc. How can that be changed for the better so that even though their target audience is for children, if there was to be another movie like Pocahontas, the story would still be accurate about what it was like to be a Native American and their vast cultures? -- Ellora Larsen
+Tackling Native American storylines in movies accurately consistently becomes a challenge for most directors, screenwriters, and etc. **How can that be changed for the better so that even though their target audience is for children, if there was to be another movie like Pocahontas, the story would still be accurate about what it was like to be a Native American and their vast cultures?** -- Ellora Larsen