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329:question:329--week_13_questions_comments-2024 [2024/11/21 05:12] – [How does this movie work as a primary source about the time in which it was made?] 199.111.65.11329:question:329--week_13_questions_comments-2024 [2024/11/21 14:23] (current) – [The "So What" Question] 76.78.172.103
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 On my initial watch of this film, there wasn’t anything that jumped out at me that seemed glaringly inaccurate. This movie focuses on the life of Ron Kovic, who wrote the autobiography that the movie is based off of. Ron was highly involved in the creation of this movie (he was a co-writer of the script, I believe) and you can tell that himself and the other filmmakers took great strides to preserve historical accuracy. I’ve been reading up on Kovic’s life after finishing the movie and the movie stays fairly accurate to his lived experience. One detail I enjoyed was the last scene, where Kovic is preparing to speak at the 1976 DNC. When he was on his way to the stage, a girl quickly asks for an autograph of his recently-published memoir, Born on the Fourth of July. The copy she handed him was identical to the 1st edition printings of that novel. -Allie On my initial watch of this film, there wasn’t anything that jumped out at me that seemed glaringly inaccurate. This movie focuses on the life of Ron Kovic, who wrote the autobiography that the movie is based off of. Ron was highly involved in the creation of this movie (he was a co-writer of the script, I believe) and you can tell that himself and the other filmmakers took great strides to preserve historical accuracy. I’ve been reading up on Kovic’s life after finishing the movie and the movie stays fairly accurate to his lived experience. One detail I enjoyed was the last scene, where Kovic is preparing to speak at the 1976 DNC. When he was on his way to the stage, a girl quickly asks for an autograph of his recently-published memoir, Born on the Fourth of July. The copy she handed him was identical to the 1st edition printings of that novel. -Allie
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 +Born on the Fourth of July accurately reflects the Vietnam War era, particularly the struggles faced by veterans and the growing disillusionment with the war. The film captures the physical and emotional toll on soldiers, especially in its portrayal of Ron Kovic’s journey from patriotic enthusiasm to deep frustration with the government and society’s treatment of returning veterans. It also authentically depicts the anti-war movement, highlighting the protests and widespread opposition to U.S. involvement in Vietnam. By exploring themes of patriotism, disillusionment, and the personal cost of war, this film offers a  look at a turbulent period in American history. -Sam B
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 + I think that this film can be a great secondary source. it accurately shows the life of Ron Kovic. There's is a lot that this films talks about and gets right.The film captures the emotional and psychological struggles faced by veterans.The film shows the struggle of trying to  reintegrating into society. It accurately reflects historical events, illustrating issues such as the anti-war movement, the treatment of veterans, and the political climate of the cold war during the 1960s and 70s. - Jedidia k
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 +Because it depicts the Vietnam War era and its aftermath authentically, *Born on the Fourth of July* is a powerful secondary source. Ron Kovic and other veterans' psychological and emotional challenges, such as PTSD, social rejection, and disenchantment with the government and war, are depicted in the movie. It offers a realistic and vivid portrayal of this tumultuous time in American history by skillfully illustrating the anti-war movement, political unrest, and the disregard for the needs of veterans.-Ryan K
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 Overall, Born on the Fourth of July did a good job of keeping lots of the movie historically accurate. They took some creative liberties, but after reading that Kovic looked over the script, one can assume he agreed that some of the changes wouldn’t affect the overall accuracy too much. One of the biggest things the film added on was Kovic’s visit to Wilson’s family in Georgia to explain his death. While it was one of the most emotional scenes in the movie, in real life he never did see them. During Kovic’s time in the hospital, the film showed him breaking his leg after working hard to walk again, which isn’t entirely true. Instead, he broke his leg in college after leaving the hospital. Another event that wasn’t fully true was Kovic’s PTSD episode while giving a speech at the parade. In his auto-biography, he said that he was up there on the grandstand, but in reality never gave a speech. However, it is true his friend Tommy took him away when the parade finished. Lastly, the film showed him launching a counterattack at Nixon’s convention after being rescued by his fellow protestors. The undercover cop arresting him actually did happen, but not at this protest. The counterattack also didn’t happen, where instead of one big event like that putting him on the map, he gained lots of his popularity from giving speeches and appearing on tv. -Matt S.  Overall, Born on the Fourth of July did a good job of keeping lots of the movie historically accurate. They took some creative liberties, but after reading that Kovic looked over the script, one can assume he agreed that some of the changes wouldn’t affect the overall accuracy too much. One of the biggest things the film added on was Kovic’s visit to Wilson’s family in Georgia to explain his death. While it was one of the most emotional scenes in the movie, in real life he never did see them. During Kovic’s time in the hospital, the film showed him breaking his leg after working hard to walk again, which isn’t entirely true. Instead, he broke his leg in college after leaving the hospital. Another event that wasn’t fully true was Kovic’s PTSD episode while giving a speech at the parade. In his auto-biography, he said that he was up there on the grandstand, but in reality never gave a speech. However, it is true his friend Tommy took him away when the parade finished. Lastly, the film showed him launching a counterattack at Nixon’s convention after being rescued by his fellow protestors. The undercover cop arresting him actually did happen, but not at this protest. The counterattack also didn’t happen, where instead of one big event like that putting him on the map, he gained lots of his popularity from giving speeches and appearing on tv. -Matt S. 
  
 +Though I felt that this movie was pretty accurate in its depiction, especially because Kovic was involved in the filmmaking, I do feel there were some liberties taken. In particular, I felt that this movie was very one-sided in its perspective, almost implying that every veteran after the war was anti-Vietnam. I don't think the depiction was inaccurate per say, I just think it was an overgeneralization of sorts. I'm not entirely sure how it could have been done better, as this movie was largely about one person's life - they couldn't have represented much more than that. - Caty
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 +While Born on the Fourth of July captures important aspects of the Vietnam War era and veterans’ experiences, there are some issues with historical accuracy. One common critique is that the film simplifies or romanticizes certain elements of Ron Kovic’s story, potentially overlooking complexities such as the varying motivations of soldiers and the broader political context of the war. Additionally, the film does not fully address the diversity of opinions within the anti-war movement or the internal conflicts among returning veterans. Also some scenes, such as interactions between characters, may not fully represent historical events or the range of experiences of Vietnam War veterans. - Sam B
  
 ====== How does the film’s overall interpretation(s) deviate from scholarly historical sources? ====== ====== How does the film’s overall interpretation(s) deviate from scholarly historical sources? ======
  
 The interpretation that this movie offers is one that often goes overlooked and is highly individualized. This movie tells the story of Ron Kovic during and after his time serving in Vietnam. In many ways Ron’s story is applicable to many Vietnam veterans, the depictions of the hard adjustments back to home life and the PTSD are a common phenomenon amongst veterans. In other ways, however, Ron’s story differs from a tale of the average veteran. I would say the main differences are that he was paralyzed and that he had a rise to prominence as an advocate for Veterans rights. - Ewan H  The interpretation that this movie offers is one that often goes overlooked and is highly individualized. This movie tells the story of Ron Kovic during and after his time serving in Vietnam. In many ways Ron’s story is applicable to many Vietnam veterans, the depictions of the hard adjustments back to home life and the PTSD are a common phenomenon amongst veterans. In other ways, however, Ron’s story differs from a tale of the average veteran. I would say the main differences are that he was paralyzed and that he had a rise to prominence as an advocate for Veterans rights. - Ewan H 
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 +One of the sources for this week was interesting in the fact that it was a fiction. I didn't notice that until I went back to see what the title was, as I thought it was entirely true. In that source, the author narrates how one of the characters felt guilty that one of the other soldiers died because he wasn't paying attention (according to him). I saw this most closely represented in the movie with Kovic's guilt over killing the 19 year old soldier. Though it was two different depictions, I felt that this was accurate in the confusion and guilt that would happen during the war. Both of the soldiers who felt guilty felt that because they had made a mistake out of their control. Chaos and extreme violence surrounded them, and they had little control over their situation. Yet that doesn't erase the guilt over losing someone you're supposed to lead. I thought this example was depicted well in the movie, as it does happen in real life. - Caty
  
 ====== How does this movie work as a primary source about the time in which it was made? ====== ====== How does this movie work as a primary source about the time in which it was made? ======
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 During the 1980s, people were still dealing with the effects of the Vietnam War. Veterans were beginning to come to terms with the war and what they had gone through. In general, society was shifting as well to one that allowed people (specifically men) to open up and be more emotional which allowed more soldiers to discuss their experiences. Another major thing that was happening in the 1980s was the Soviet Union’s involvement with Afghanistan. In 1989, the year this movie was released, the American embassy in Afghanistan was closed. This movie could also represent a sentiment or a warning against getting involved in another major conflict. --Emma F. During the 1980s, people were still dealing with the effects of the Vietnam War. Veterans were beginning to come to terms with the war and what they had gone through. In general, society was shifting as well to one that allowed people (specifically men) to open up and be more emotional which allowed more soldiers to discuss their experiences. Another major thing that was happening in the 1980s was the Soviet Union’s involvement with Afghanistan. In 1989, the year this movie was released, the American embassy in Afghanistan was closed. This movie could also represent a sentiment or a warning against getting involved in another major conflict. --Emma F.
  
 +The film serves a primary source for the time period it was made it because it illustrates the changing views of the American people about the Vietnam War and its lasting impact on the soldiers that fought in it. The shift in Ron Kovic's views (from initially being someone that was ready and eager to fight in the war for his country, to eventually becoming disillusioned and anti-war due to the ramifications and horrors of the war) also highlight and mirror the public opinion held by citizens, and many other veterans who came back from the war, about the war and the unjustifiable nature of it. -Vumiliya Veriak 
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 +I think this movie is critical to understanding how the Vietnam War affected people in its time. Considering that it came out only 14 years after the war ended- that time frame is essential to making it a primary source because it was still recent and the impact and effects of it were still very much being felt through the next decade, like shockwaves. The fact that it was released a good distance later matters a little more in this case compared with WWII and how The Best Years of Our Lives portrayed the aftermath of the war, so near to the end of it. Born on the Fourth of July required some distance to reflect on how detrimental of an impact the war actually had, and people didn't just bounce back like after WWII. Having time in between almost works as a documentary because it was just so different and psychologically tormenting in experience than previous wars were, so it required some time to study and understand it, as with PTSD. These complex elements made the movie so emotionally accurate. -Jenna
 ====== The "So What" Question ====== ====== The "So What" Question ======
  
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 This movie teaches many important lessons that Americans should know. One of the biggest is showing just how brutal war is. Events that happen in seconds can go on to affect someone for the rest of their lives, and this movie really portrayed that as the viewer saw what it did to Ron’s psyche. The war turned him into a completely different person, with one of the saddest things being that almost no one seemed to care. This was really evident at the hospital, where I thought this film did a detailed job of portraying how they took poor care of wounded veterans. Americans at home didn’t understand the brutality some of these soldiers went through, expecting them to go on with their lives as normal. Seeing this helps remind people that veterans didn’t just sacrifice during their time fighting, but as well as their lives after, having to  live with what they had to experience. -Matt S.  This movie teaches many important lessons that Americans should know. One of the biggest is showing just how brutal war is. Events that happen in seconds can go on to affect someone for the rest of their lives, and this movie really portrayed that as the viewer saw what it did to Ron’s psyche. The war turned him into a completely different person, with one of the saddest things being that almost no one seemed to care. This was really evident at the hospital, where I thought this film did a detailed job of portraying how they took poor care of wounded veterans. Americans at home didn’t understand the brutality some of these soldiers went through, expecting them to go on with their lives as normal. Seeing this helps remind people that veterans didn’t just sacrifice during their time fighting, but as well as their lives after, having to  live with what they had to experience. -Matt S. 
  
 +It is really important that the issues that were addressed in this film are brought to the fore. Today, more people understand the experiences of Vietnam veterans and how terrible the war truly was. However, a lot of what we know today is because of movies and personal accounts like these. Although Ron’s experience doesn’t apply to every Vietnam veteran, a lot of what he experienced does. Ron suffers from PTSD, substance abuse, and other problems that some people wouldn’t even consider such as coming to terms with the anti-war (and anti-American) sentiment. 
 +--Emma F.
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 +The film was a very sobering reminder about the horrors of the Vietnam War and its long-lasting consequences, particularly for the veterans that come back from it and the many issues they suffered from as a result. Something that stuck out to me when I was watching the film was the scene in which Kovic was in rehabilitation at the Veterans hospital. It was eye-opening to see the horrific conditions these veterans were living in, particularly due to how underfunded the place was which just went on to show how ignored and forgotten about they were by the government. I think it was important that stories like Kovic's were told because it really brought to light the treatment of veterans after the Vietnam War and how they felt, as well as how they struggled coming back to a world where they were ignored by their government and hated by their fellow citizens.—Vumiliya Veriak 
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 +The film sheds light on the profound personal and societal consequences of the Vietnam War which offers a powerful critique of both the conflict and the treatment of veterans. Through Ron Kovic's journey, the film humanizes the often-overlooked struggles of soldiers returning home. It serves as a powerful reminder of the cost of war from the veterans' experiences. I can say this film played a crucial role in shaping public discourse around military service and veteran rights during a time when the nation grappled with its conscience regarding the Vietnam War. - Jedidia 
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 +The Vietnam War is not something that is often taught or even talked about. It wasn't considered an actual war, but a conflict, so perhaps it doesn't hold the same weight as other US involvement in wars. Unfortunately, service members involved in Vietnam got shorted in just about every way possible and it still to this day has had a negative impact and effect. It deserves mourning just like any other loss of life and this movie is the first one I have ever seen that actually deals with deep complexities of something so intense. Unfortunately, many veterans are dying off now and their memories and experiences will soon be forgotten, especially because they've always been considered "second rate" and haven't been regarded fairly ever since the war began. This movie exists so that it will serve as a reminder and a look inside what happened and how greatly people suffered. - Jenna
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 +Because it highlights the underappreciated hardships faced by Vietnam War veterans both during and after their service, the movie *Born on the Fourth of July* is significant. It draws attention to the harsh reality of war, its enduring effects on soldiers' mental health, and the government's inability to adequately care for them or honor their contributions. The movie questions romanticized depictions of American patriotism and serves as a moving reminder of the costs of war and the significance of remembering soldiers by following Ron Kovic's journey from an enthusiastic Marine to a disillusioned anti-war activist. -Ryan K
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